Farewell Etaoin Shrdlu (1978) [video] | Hacker News Reader

Farewell Etaoin Shrdlu (1978) [video]

archive.org

96 pointstruxs46 comments

My dad was a linotype operator before WW2, his dad was blind and during the depression as the oldest he had to leave school at 15 to support the family (this was in NZ)

Skilled lino operators were the programmers of their days, in short supply, they were paid really well (for the time) and could quit, travel for a while and find a job almost anywhere.

When dad signed up for WW2 he was almost immediately seconded to a HQ company, men who could type were as scarce as hen's teeth, too valuable - he was shot at occasionally but they generally weren't sent right to the front line, mostly one row back - people had to be paid, orders had to be intelligible

BTW if you ever get to see a linotype machine operating in a tech museum get someone to show you - especially look at how the type molds are mechanically sorted after use, how automatic line justification is done - see how a line of type (hence the name) is cast in molten type metal - it's absolutely brilliant and completely mechanical machinery

Dad could read type backwards, it was part of the job, he still worked for the newspaper after getting an accounting degree after coming back from the war, I spent a summer working there, got to see a full hot-metal system working before computers came along and made lots of people redundant (used to be a reporter's copy was checked by 3-4 people: lino operator, reader, copy holder, sub editor) now it's just spellcheck ... and before the evening paper was essentially killed by TV

When I was a kid my dad ran a printing club at our school. He was a Physics and Maths teacher, but had a love of printing and photography so the printing room also had a dark room attached. He used to produce posters, leaflets and booklets for the school. In the late 70s he made a computer from a parts kit bought through an electronics magazine. Watching the type being popped on to the composing stick brought back memories.

07:54 - A pure-mechanical teletypewriter (Baudot/Hughes style, with a piano keyboard) is controlling the typesetting apparatus automatically, reading characters from a paper tape. The characters are encoded in ITA-2, a revised version of the original 1870 Baudot code. It's how a real /dev/tty looks like, and what we used before EBCDIC and ASCII. Digital communication in the Victorian era.

24:35 - PDP-11. a quick flash among a lot of other computers. Only a single row of the keys on the front panel was showed, but I can't be wrong - you know just from its color.

    ___________
    | ooo .   |
    | ooo .   |
    | ooo .o  |
    |  o  .   |
    |  oo .o  |
    |  o  .   |
    | oo  .o o|
    | ooo .oo |
    | oo  .  o|
    | oo o.   |
    |    o. o |
    ___________

That "baudot" code looks like it's 7 bits wide (4 bits to the left of the feed holes represented by "." and 3 bits to the right)

Were there extra spaces inserted somewhere?

It's meant to be an homage (programage?) to /usr/games/ppt but my memories could easily have suffered bitrot.

There was an extra newline.

(according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baudot_code AT&T used post-1963 encodings)

Oh right, it's just ASCII.

I initially thought that it was a 5-bit Baudot code until I realised that it didn't make much sense in any 5-bit encoding.

I was trying to work out how an editor would've screwed up the formatting without breaking the vertical line on the right which probably why I was so confused.

I'm amused to see that ppt(6) is still kicking around in OpenBSD (in the "games" base installation package) and is probably still sitting quietly on many machines today (have Apple removed it from OS X?).

yes, they have :(

> 24:35 - PDP-11

I saw Amdahl (22:11), IBM (24:42), Data General (24:01) and DEC and endless IBM disk drives. Making everything talk to everything else should have been quite an accomplishment

I worked with some former hot-metal compositors from a daily newspaper. They had taken their savings when they were made redundant and started up a computerized compositing firm just as desktop publishing was taking off. There was an art to composition and layout and these guys were experts. They made book for a while (pun intended).

Nowadays we have lost the artistry and elegance of knowledgable compositing and layout. Algorithms automate us 80% of the way there and we swim in a sea of crap with few people aware of it because it looks, well, okay if you prefer to excel at mediocrity.

For those uninitiated to the artistry and elegance of careful compositing and layout, do you have any examples?

It seems to be fairly easy to find exemplar typesetting on the internet (probably due, at least in part, to the phenomenal effort that has been poured into TeX/LaTeX and their ilk) but it's hard to find much that is considered to be a good representation of what careful human composition and layout can produce.

The only example that I could think of would be many of the books by Edward Tufte but I think much of that compositing has/was automated and "just" guided by a particular style that the author wanted to achieve.

The algorithmic approach to replacing human judgement has definitely resulted in a sort of race-to-the-bottom simply due to the economics (think about how few eyes would review a story before "print" today versus when this video was shot) so I wonder what sort of skill might've been lost and how it might be able to be recovered.

> For those uninitiated to the artistry and elegance of careful compositing and layout, do you have any examples?

I often see both the examples of the older "pretty" typesetting and the examples of older "just make it fast" practically "no" typesetting texts (e.g. the material typed on the cheap typewriter and additionally "fixed" with the hand). The last I've seen, at the moment on HN first page is:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23549203

Printed in 1975, I don't believe it's "desktop publishing" and even if it at the first sight it looks like a bland Word document made with Times New Roman or whatever, I believe I see some differences, e.g. in the tables? See the plus sign there. I'm not an expert in typography though.

For more interesting examples, look at the stuff printed e.g. 300, 200 or 100 years ago. I believe I always see the interesting examples of care of details or simply somehow "prettier" use of typefaces or something that looks differently -- it's hard to me to explain what, but that simply disappeared since.

When I bought my first e-reader, I loaded it with free PDFs of old book scans from the internet archive that I searched for keywords of interest (science, machining, novels, etc). Since the works out of copyright are all a hundred years old or more, I ended up reading through volumes and volumes of old books about blacksmithing, precision metalwork, life in the countryside, and all sorts of other things.

One thing I was struck by (for the PDF versions) was that the typesetting were sometimes absolutely gorgeous, and often used fonts I'd never seen before.

I've took a second look: on the first page look for the first "pay off" words, then analyze the look of the ff shapes there. See "effort" and "official" there too. If all this is not surprising to you, for something you surely haven't expected, see all the occurrence of "employees". Do you notice something? It's so obvious there's something different going on, compared to what we are used to today.

This was a great watch. I fully understand why they aren't used any more, but what a mechanical delight! Watching people work at the smooth speed of practiced efficiency is a joy to see, too.

(Couldn't help but notice how black with lead everyone's fingers were as well.)

[edit] I am impressed with the printer's comments at 14:10 re: the inevitability of computers

Useful context about the film, from the New York Times's in-house historian: https://www.nytimes.com/times-insider/2014/11/13/1978-farewe...

I really like listening to the worker talk about computers at 14:28. He conveyed much of the same thoughts we still have about computers and automation.

Transcript:

- Over 49 years, being a member of the composable, a senior member of the priority list, the No. 1 man on the priority list. "How do you feel this change?" "Well I feel that... They call it progress, I would like to stay the way it was, keep the machine running." "How long have you worked here?" "49 years." "How old are you?" "75 and half." "Are you retiring tonight?" "Yes." "This is the last time?" "Yes." "Let's have a drink, buddy!"

- This worker chalks up his sentiments: End of an era, it was good while it lasted. Crying won't help.

- "I find it very sad. I planned the new stuff, the new processes, and all, but I've been printed it out for 26 years. I've been in this place, 6 years for apprenticeship, 20 years journeyman, and these words that aren't just tossed around. They've always to us. I hate to say it, it's inevitable that we're gonna go into computers. All the knowledge I've acquired over these 26 years, it's all locked up in a little box now called the computer. And I think probably most jobs are gonna end up the same way." "Is computer a good idea in general?" "Oh there's no doubt about it, it's gonna benefit everybody, eventually, how long will take? I don't know."

- "When is this operation gonna closed up?" "It closes up in the morning." "How do you feel about it?" "Another intervention. I knew there are new process for moving into. Well I think of these machines plus another $100,000 a piece to be junked [...]"

My favourite quote:

"I hate to say it. It's inevitable that we're going to go onto computers. All the knowledge I've acquired over these 26 years is all kept in a little box now called a computer, and I think probably, most jobs are going to end up the same way.

Do you think computers are a good idea in general?

Oh, there's no doubt about it. They're going to benefit everybody eventually."

If you liked this, be sure to check out the 2012 documentary 'Linotype: The Film', featuring Carl Schlesinger and footage from 'Farewell Etaoin Shrdlu'. One of my all-time favorite documentaries!

https://linotypefilm.com/

In high school I was in a computer tech class. In the second semester each of us were assigned one of the labs in the school. I was sent to the journalism room where the school paper was made. It was a fascinating and formative experience.

It was my responsibility to generate the CMYK output and FTP it to the printers. It was an awesome responsibility to be the last pair of eyes on the pages before we released them to the world, regardless of the technology.

It was just a goofy student paper in a small Idaho town. I can only imagine how it would feel to be responsible for the front page of the New York Times!

Previous discussion:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16904770

The link submitted then (https://vimeo.com/127605643) was to a slightly different version of the film on Vimeo as part of the "Linotype: The Film" collection:

https://vimeo.com/134626010

I'm old enough to have learned how to set type by hand, in a composing stick, in a high school shop class. We printed stationary, cards, etc, as part of the assignments. And I still remember the ordering of the letters in the "California Job Case." We took a field trip out to Newsday, a Long Island newspaper, to see their hot-type machines (and probably breathed in a lot of lead!)

The video shows some photo plates embedded into pages alongside the text plates made from lead. Does anyone know what type of machines created those?

I can’t find a picture of the particular machine but it’sa form of relief printing using etched metal.

https://printedpicture.artgallery.yale.edu/photography-ink-r...

My brief stint in journalism was after hot metal but before full computerisation. We typeset by keyboarding into a machine that produced column-wide printed output. Afterwards, to do layout, 'Cut' was done with a blade, and 'Paste' was literal. (in this vid, too: 25:32)

Never saw how the actual back-end printing was done, but we did cadge used printing plates from the big paper downtown when we needed thin aluminium sheet for other hacks.

Are 24:32 cordwood modules?

25:13 the days when storage was dangerous if it fell on you (now it's probably riskier that you might choke on it).

It was probably offset printing. The plates were etched metal positives from film negatives. A soft intermediate picks up an even layer of ink from the plate and deposits it on wet paper. The paper is then oven dried. (IIRC, it has been a long time)

"The Art and Technique of Photoengraving - 1950s: This film, created by Horan Engraving in the 1950s, shows the entire process of photoengraving. Starting with taking a photo, it shows camera work, engraving, etching, plate preparation, touch-up, zinc & copper plates, one-color process, four-color process and more. If you want to learn how a photograph becomes a printing plate and a final print in a newspaper or book, look no further."

https://vimeo.com/134626010

You can see photoengraving in action in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eZBD4U6RD4

I remember seeing linotypes in operation at a Hirschfeld Printing in Denver, which is now out of business. They were fascinating to watch. On the other hand, if you happened to choose, oh, ten-point Spartan, then discovered that it looked a bit small, you had to have the whole item reset. And wrapping lines around illustrations was not simple.

But they were great in their day.

Today I learned that this name was actually an inside joke/reference in Godel, Escher, Bach: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etaoin_shrdlu

I definitely didn't understand at the time I read, but it's so much easier to research stuff like this now.

It was also an inside joke in Mad Magazine. I had initially thought it was Yiddish or a Don Martinism.

Apparently the Saguache Crescent in Colorado is (as of this video in 2016) still using the linotype, the last known newspaper in the US to do so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNa9XRoNRUM

Everytime I see Etaioin Shrdlu I remember of Nethack (there's a scroll in the game named like it - the effects are specific to every game since nethack randomizes everything, tho).

Btw I cannot recommend NetHack enough if you're into Roguelikes.

I'm in love with those terminals. Reminds me a bit of the Corona portable PC or the Epson QX-10, but more elegant and balanced.

And, also, available on multiple sizes. Those things must have been very expensive.

An absolutely amazing film.

Hot metal typesetting is fantastic stuff.

It's 1978, not 1980.

IMDB has it as 1980. Why do you say 1978? If you're right, we must change it!

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2238777/

The publication year is cited on the archive.org page. It is indeed 1978.

Maybe some difference between publication and release date?

The description starts with "On July 2, 1978, the last hot lead edition of the New York Times rolled off the presses."

Ok, 1978 it is. I wonder why it seemed like 1980?

IMDB definitely says released in 1980 but I can’t find any other reference to that year.

Everywhere else online says filmed in 1978, including the Times website itself: https://www.nytimes.com/video/insider/100000004687429/farewe...

I’m gonna tell myself they filmed it in 1978 and released it to the public in 1980.

The copyright claim at the very end of the credits (about 28:38) says 1980.

When I saw the title I thought the video was going to be about Terry Winograd's SHRDLU natural language understanding program https://hci.stanford.edu/winograd/shrdlu/

Then I was wondering if there were any videos about the SHRDLU program. There is one very poor quality screen capture video on youtube showing SHRDLU in operation. I stumbled on another fairly short video (2:13) of Terry Winograd discussing his career as a technologist working in AI. I think it's an interesting alternate view of technology and its effect on people. The video is here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW5la8ZZJCE

SHRDLU, sans Etaoin, has been discussed on HN too:

2017 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14351485

2014 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8219409

... though maybe not as much as one might have expected.

Just a little more context. Terry Winograd was Larry Page's advisor at Stanford, and, although I can't be sure, I think that Winograd may have had some influence on Google's early "Don't Be Evil" stance.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com