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Comment by new_realist | Hacker News Reader

The Hyundai Nexo EV is already at 380 miles, and it’s a real SUV, not a flat-as-a-pancake Model S. It refuels in five minutes, to boot, but is only practical in California. If they increased tank volume by 5% it’d be at 400 miles EPA.

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You should mention that it’s a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle if you’re going to compare apples to oranges.

For those wondering this is a Hydrogen fuel cell car, only available for sale in CA because that’s the only place you can fill it. It appears they sold about 270 units in the US last year.

> only available for sale in CA

No, you can buy it in Korea and Europe as well. Europe and China are the most important markets for EVs. Hyundai isn't making many Nexos yet though.

One parks on my street in SF. It looks pretty sweet. :)

To save people googling, the Hyundai Nexo EV is a hydrogen fuel-cell car, not battery electric.

That looks pretty sweet honestly. I know it's not a far out take, but my feeling with the established car makers that are doing fuel cells (e.g. Toyota, and in that model Hyundai), want to learn how to build cars that run on electricity, and put too many eggs into where the electricity comes from.

From the outside it looks frustrating that they are not going full tilt while Tesla does Tesla things, but I hope I see where they're coming from.

I think they realize all electric cars will not be the largest share of the market when hydrocarbon vehicles are phased out. The biggest reason for not owning an electric vehicle is the charging time and range. Toyota and Hyundai aren't going all in on all electric because they would rather focus on capturing the fuel cell market which will be as large as the hydrocarbon vehicle market is today.

As far as I know hydrogen is currently mostly derived from fossil fuels. Electrolysis would be possible but it's expensive and still less energy efficient than a pure battery-electric vehicle.

People are willing to pay a premium for electric cars because they're greener. This DOES NOT APPLY to hydrogen fuel cell cars.

Electrolysis is much cheaper than in the past. Nearly all serious hydrogen related proposals involves electrolysis.

The Bay Area H2 shortage was fun, as in schedule your refueling between 1 and 5 am to have any chance of getting a half tank, or wait an hour in line by day.

Doesn't that thing get like 50-something MPGe? The Teslas are more than twice as efficient.

Fuel cells are pretty cool. My friend has the Toyota one. They're pretty good in CA but have a ways to go before practicality. I believe you can only lease them ATM because they cost about 400k. They're definitely a viable tech though!

I'll also say that part of the Tesla ecosystem is the self-driving and performance, not just earth friendly.

Also you compared an SUV to a Sedan which is supposed to be flat as a pancake. lol. A better comparison would be the model Y.

I don't think very many people would cross-shop a hydrogen-powered Hyundai and a Tesla Model S.

The website for that car points out that it can get from San Francisco to LA on one tank but that's blatantly false unless you start and finish at the edges of those metroplexes while driving extremely efficiently, with no detours or a/c.

I'm not sure why you'd refer to this as an EV when the manufacturer doesn't.

As far as I'm concerned it's not an EV unless I can plug it into a solar panel and charge it.

and how many standards-compliant hydrogen refueling stations exist right now in the 48 states, compared to places you can charge an EV?

Another bonus of having an EV is charging in your own home. You end up with a full tank every night.

Yeah, it's silly to compare. BEV charging infrastructure is trivially expanded and piggybacked on an already ubiquitous power grid.

You still need big trucks constantly hauling liquid hydrogen around for the fuel cell option...

I've always considered electric charging to be similar to an interface. You can change out the back end without the consumer having to do anything. You consume electricity but it could be nuclear, wind, coal, or pig shit.

It is pretty close to ideal.

It doesn't even poison the groundwater when the pipes break.

Unless you don't have a home...if you live in any dense area in an apartment, forget about it.

I actually live in a condo complex with 300 units and I get by. I just charge at the local library for free like once a week or at work.

How many charging stations does your library have?

4. The McDonald's next door also has 4. And there are paid ones in the street. It's a solid setup.

I wish everywhere was like that, but anecdotally my midwest suburb experience or would-be experience is very different. The only places that have chargers are ~3 grocery stores all 15+ minutes away. Work is a surface lot nowhere near any electricity, let alone a charger. And the garage circuit in my rental house isn't even rated to support 120V charging. Being able to comfortably get an EV will either take years, or a complete change in scenery. :(

I charge through a ~40 foot long 120V "extension cord" made of 10 gauge wire and plugged into an appropriately rated outlet. Which is to say, you probably could charge in your garage if you really wanted to.

It's unfortunate people don't realize this doesn't scale. If everyone at your 300 unit condo had a BEV, this doesn't work.

If everyone at a 300 unit condo had a BEV, the cost of bringing in new high-voltage AC service to a dedicated 480V transformer and set of chargers could be divided 300 ways and shared by the condo association/strata plan, making it affordable for all. Economies of scale.

Good luck retrofitting the hundreds of thousands of apartments and condominiums out there.

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