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Comment by gruez | Hacker News Reader

It's sad that they got rid of it in windows 8 and later.

>the classic theme was a lot leaner on system resources

maybe, but it probably also made things run slower because it forces everything to be done in software rather than hardware.

https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20130327-00/?p=48...

>Starting in Windows Vista, a lot of visual effects were offloaded to the graphics card. Consequently, the impact on system performance for those visual effects is negligible, and sometimes turning off the effect actually makes your system run slower because you disabled hardware acceleration, forcing operations to be performed in software.

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What's really sad is the classic widgets are still there -- you can see them occasionally in Win10 when the compositor glitches out.

Weirder, MDI windows use Win7's classic\b\b\b\b\b\b aero basic styling, so apparently some of the Win7 styling is also still available.

Another major annoyance: the resize area for a window is seemingly 1 pixel wide. You used to be able to specify a width and all windows would be bordered with it. I get that Win10 looks sleeker but did they really have to take that control away

What really bothered me was that back in XP days it seemed that .theme files seemed really interchangeable save for MS signing. I remember downloading numerous theme files, placing them in the right spot, and installing a cracked themes dll, and they'd just work.

> What's really sad is the classic widgets are still there -- you can see them occasionally in Win10 when the compositor glitches out.

I wouldn't call them "classic". They're closer to the "aero basic" theme from vista/7 than the "classic" theme that was available from windows xp to windows 7.

You're right. And it was definitely aero basic.

>the resize area for a window is seemingly 1 pixel wide. You used to be able to specify a width and all windows would be bordered with it. I get that Win10 looks sleeker but did they really have to take that control away

It's really a bit of a mistake, maybe a limitation(?) of the Windows UI system.

I mean the border on OS X is 1px too but the resize area is about 8 pixels.

Would love it if MS could do another spin on the deep details and just make it all work nice.

>> the resize area for a window is seemingly 1 pixel wide. >> You used to be able to specify a width and all windows >> would be bordered with it. I get that Win10 looks sleeker >> but did they really have to take that control away

> It's really a bit of a mistake, maybe a limitation(?) > of the Windows UI system. > > I mean the border on OS X is 1px too > but the resize area is about 8 pixels.

Is it? My impression is that Windows behaves the same there, i.e. the border is drawn 1 px wide, but the full width of it is still available for grabbing, only it's being drawn invisible. If I hover my mouse over a window border, the cursor certainly switches into resize mode for more than just 1 pixel's worth of distance.

You're correct just double checked and realized the problem I've been noticing is specifically the top edge of the top right corner has some weird dead zone areas where it is 1px but most of the surrounding areas and all other edges are about 5.

There's no real way to translate the classic theme "as designed" to hi-DPI systems, AFAIK; let alone to allow it to freely morph between desktop and tablet interaction paradigms when you dock/undock a two-in-one.

You could in theory design a modern UI that resembles the classic UI, but it wouldn't really be "the classic UI". A large part of what makes the classic UI have the particular look it does is that it has custom constraint-layout logic for each control, the outputs of which are fed as parameters into the arbitrary hand-written GDI draw-call logic used to draw each control.

Some of the more interesting controls have Turing-hard constraint logic, which just can't be replicated in non-Turing-complete constraint-layout systems like XAML or CSS. (You can get close, but it requires using huge hierarchies of layout nodes with tons of overhead, where the Windows UI actually got by with very few.)

> There's no real way to translate the classic theme "as designed" to hi-DPI systems, AFAIK

The classic theme supports arbitrary sizes (in px or "device-independent" units) for both text and widgets, which addresses HiDPI and touch readiness. What it might have trouble with however is mixed DPI, where moving a window across two screens requires rendering it with different pixel densities. But that was not on the horizon in the Windows 8.x days.

Indeed, and there also is a DPI scaling option at least as early as Windows 98, on top of the text/widget size configuration. I've used it on a 1200p monitor connected to a Windows 98 box, and it works.

It doesn't always produce the most beautiful results, but it's serviceable. And to be fair, it's taken a long time for high-DPI to consistently look beautiful even on recent versions of Windows. I shudder to remember looking at Device Manager on a display set to 125% in the DPI settings.

It was first available in Win95 Plus pack. Or you could use TweakUI.

> You could in theory design a modern UI that resembles the classic UI, but it wouldn't really be "the classic UI".

I bet this would look awesome. Especially in high DPI.

> There's no real way to translate the classic theme "as designed" to hi-DPI systems, AFAIK;

This claim is entirely baseless. The "classic theme" is just a gray background plus some light/dark borders. There's absolutely zero difficulty doing that in hi-DPI, or any other environment for that matter.

Stop making excuses for Microsoft. Windows XP was a panicked and half baked response to the shinny Mac OS X Aqua interface, because that's what Microsoft had always done: following Apple's lead. I can't really blame them either, as following Apple's lead had led to great success for Microsoft.

Actually I lied, I do blame Microsoft for blindly chasing Apple's new shinny. Having established themselves as a pioneer and authority in UI design/usability with the revolutionary Windows 95 GUI, they should've had the confidence to stick to their guns and iterate their GUI without too much influence from the competition.

Windows 10 is full of distractions, one time I thought my display was broken - transparency on title bar. And animations just add latency.

Disable transparency and windows animations (Settings > Display > Show transparency on Windows, Show animations in windows). Also disable "Fade or slide menus into view". Much better experience and not much to offload.

I just went through my settings on my work machine and:

* Disabled transparency

* Disabled animations

* Disabled scroll-bars being auto-hidden

Unfortunately, I couldn't find "Fade or slide menus into view", but the rest of the settings are night and day! Thank you.

You are welcome! I would not find myself:

* My Computer

* Right click

* Properties

* System properties

* Advanced

* Performance

* Settings

* Uncheck "Fade or slide menus into view"

* Apply / OK

I recommend to enable colors on Window Title Bar. It really improves visibility of foreground window.

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