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Comment by malcolmgreaves | Hacker News Reader

A lot of guys are complaining in the thread, with undertones of an expectation of sex

Most likely reason I see that would cause this data: the immense social pressure applied to straight women has lessened in the 21st century. A straight woman won't be ostricized at 25 if they don't "have a man." The data suggests that young straight men aren't having as much sex. I postulate that the only reason is that straight men need to work harder to impress empowered straight women. And that the overwhelming majority aren't even trying.

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Well, the article did start by saying if you aren't having sex, that's bad for your health. So, it seems like we should be having sex, but of course, you can't just "decide to have sex", you need a willing partner.

I have tried a lot of things over the past 10 years, but haven't had any success. Eventually I just gave up. I imagine many men are in this category, though it's hard to know.

These days I'm fat, ugly, and dying (ESRD). So I think my time is over, and there's little reason to spend what time I have left on trying to find someone to love me, when the chances are the lowest they've ever been.

I am not familiar with ESRD but I really hope that there is something that can be done about it. Blessings man, sad to hear about your medical condition!

> that straight men need to work harder to impress empowered straight women

That might be true, but sounds rather sexist. If I was a young man today, faced with a large number of such entitled women, I'd probably just bow out completely. Successful relationships require mutuality, not "you need to impress me".

I'm liking where Malcolm is going. So much of the talk in this thread is defeatist, like if some other guy has you beat in terms of wealth or looks then you have no chance.

But that way of thinking makes it really hard to solve the problem for yourself if that's what you're interested in.

So as I read your note, empowered straight women have some basic standards and they are finding that they have more freedom finally to hold out for those standards.

But these standards are probably not all that difficult for men to attain and so why aren't men talking more about just doing that work?

Most people expect to have sex. It's why we teach sex education - because we expect sex among teens! Sex is normal. It's even worth planning and teaching for.

Maybe the word you meant to say is "entitled" to sex. That is pretty ridiculous for sure. There's a distinction, IMO.

But the data also shows that for women the figure is unchanged.

Precisely illustrates my point: most men are still operating under an outdated expectation of sex and romance. That merely existing suffices for being a good partner. When in reality, standards have been vastly increased any only a few men have gotten with the times.

And what are the standards exactly ? Plenty of people who have good jobs, average bodies and decent personalities absolutely struggle. If that’s not enough ...

Because the men that are willing to put in the effort are still having sex. Its not hard for a man to become attractive: eat right, exercise often, groom regularly, dress well, develop a compelling personality, cultivate relationships with interesting people. The fact that people who don't even try aren't able to have sex doesn't seem surprising (or bad).

Its not hard for a man to become attractive: just grow a little and be over 6ft.

/discussion

> Its not hard for a man to become attractive

Proceeds to list the most difficult things in life.

None of the things listed are difficult at all. They take willpower and time, of course, but they aren't rocket science.

having willpower and time are two of the most dificult things in life.

Heartily disagree. If you have time to play video games and endlessly post on reddit, then you have time to get in shape and take a shower. Willpower's even easier barring mental illness (in which case they should see a doctor, not whine about women on the internet).

I don't think showering is the one that is considered hard. It is the "develop a compelling personality" and "make friendships with interesting people" items that are most challenging. IME "compelling personality" is difficult to define, different for each potential partner, and often has to do with humor. The challenging bit is that some aspect of your personality that you care about a lot (love of math, plants, or music) might not matter to someone else. And humor can just as easily be hurtful as it can heal. Some jokes just land terribly.

You can have a good body with a six-pack and still fail in a relationship - this is more true for men than women.

That does not sound like "not hard".

> develop a compelling personality

Hah, I love how you slipped this in right next to buying new clothes. Developing a compelling personality is not trivial. In fact, most people go their entire lives with developing a compelling personality. Might as well tell guys they just need to grow a little taller.

You comically underestimate how hard those things are for many men, especially those that are economically disadvantaged. I don't agree with many of the takes in these comments, but your simplification to "just work harder" isn't any better.

Economics doesn't have anything to do with these.

- Eat Right - actually cheaper than eating unhealthy

- Exercise Often - possible to do free

- Groom regularly - very cheap, the cost of a haircut every couple of months

- Develop a personality - free

- Cultivate relationships - free

Once again your ability to absurdly oversimplify things is truly astounding.

The reason why one's economic situation is relevant (and it's relevant to essentially everything), is because it becomes a source of many other biological and social pressures that might prevent someone from spending time, for example, "[developing] a personality" (whatever that means).

You forgot: those bastards don't even try to become taller.

Some people like me just aren't interested in maintaining superficial friendships and social circles just to find a partner. I am plenty interesting without a social circle, and would rather have a relationship only with my partner and nobody else in it. This makes it more difficult. Socialization is for children, in my opinion, and I only want social interactions with a partner and not with a group of people (like i did as a kid).

men aren't ostracized at 25 (or 35) either for not "having a woman". Is there an undertone here that they should be trying?

>A lot of guys are complaining in the thread, with undertones of an expectation of sex

I don't see the undertones. Copied from another comment:

It's so interesting how whenever any man talks about romantic problems he is met with this feminist mantra "you aren't owed sex". Do you honestly think that's what we're talking about? If someone talked about how much it sucks that they don't have car and need to walk to work would you tell them "you aren't owed a car"?

I think people regurgitate this phrase because we can't ever acknowledge that sexual empowerment results in peoples needs not being met. It must be their fault, they must be sabotaging somehow. They must be sexists.

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