The Rise, Fall, and Rise of the Home Office | Hacker News Reader

The Rise, Fall, and Rise of the Home Office

citylab.com

85 pointsSamWhited75 comments

I'd never given a lot of thought to it but even the fairly large house I grew up in during the 60s/70s didn't have a dedicated office although there were large bedrooms with desks. I was fortunate enough to have a nice dedicated office before the current situation hit.

One does see a huge contrast on video calls between people in seemingly offices (or, if bedrooms/living rooms, sufficiently stage managed and lit to appear as such) and those obviously balancing laptops in a bedroom or kitchen table.

What makes something a dedicated office though? The only two things I can think of would be a phone line (not so much these days) and maybe being somewhat separated/distanced from the rest of the bedrooms and maybe near the front door. That's how I deduced I was an aberration to the family planning from my "bedroom" anyway.

Good acoustics (low echo) is high on my list, and one of the first things I improve when setting up my home offices.

For my situation, it's not even so much about having a door. But having a separated work space/bookshelves (though there are plenty of others throughout the house), lights/audio gear, and generally a separated space that can be pretty messy. In times past, that would be about having lots of paper. Now it's more about having a bunch of computers/cables/etc. isolated from the rest of the house--even if, in practice, I often work elsewhere with a laptop.

What makes it an office? A separate room (or at least separated area, dedicated desk and chair, necessary peripherals and paraphernalia, sufficient electrical outlets and opportunity to not be interrupted.

A desk, and being set aside for only work related activities.

> What makes something a dedicated office though? The only two things I can think of would be a phone line (not so much these days) and maybe being somewhat separated/distanced from the rest of the bedrooms and maybe near the front door.

Some work requires an actual workstation with many cores, memory and beefy GPU.

Some people work on prototype devices with jigs, serial connections power supplies etc.

For some people WiFi does not cut it and you want a nice networking setup.

Other people may work with physical documents so there will be a printer, scanner, mail supplies involved.

I think "near the front door" only matters if you're seeing other people in the office. My office is near the front door but I don't actually need it to be. It's actually kind of inconvenient in our present work-from-home reality because my kid hears me on calls and doesn't understand that I can't play right now; in the long term I might set up an office in the basement, far from everything.

Interesting article. I'm personanly struggling to find a home office chair, without being able to try them in store. unfortunately, all the reccomendations are in the 500$+ range that I simply cannot afford.

I have this one for $370: https://www.autonomous.ai/office-chairs/ergonomic-chair?opti... The cushion is nice and thick and it has lots of adjustments.

If you work from home, ask if your company will reimburse you. This is a business expense.

I'm guessing that's unlikely. Some are giving a small no-strings-attached stipend for WFH expenses but I'd be surprised if there was any widespread reimbursement for outfitting home offices. (Which is TBH less of a big deal in a world where most people are using laptops.)

My boss at a FAANG told his org (100 people) to spend whatever it took on home office equipment and that he'd figure it out on the backend. Asked us to run anything by him if we were planning on more than $2000.

I'd guess that's pretty atypical.

We are in a team that saw increased demand during COVID. I expect that he thought it would be a lot easier to ask his management to come up with $200K in expense than have the core services start to fall over under load if people weren't working effectively.

Unfortunately my (more than $500 and 15 yo) chair finally gave out when things were ramping up. I'm grateful that my other decent office chair is OK for now.

But, yeah, you really want to try out chairs even (especially) the really expensive ones. For example, even though I'm a big Aeron fan--said deceased chair is one--a lot of people don't like mesh chairs at all.

If you're in the US, I've had good luck buying Aeron chairs used on craigslist (in the $200-$250 range). I would also say check FaceBook marketplace (I've found some good things there - though not chairs). Finally, as someone else also mentioned, I have the ErgoChair 2 ( https://www.autonomous.ai/office-chairs/ergonomic-chair ). I don't care about color, so I bought the green one which was $20 cheaper.

This price for an Aeron is very good -- but in my metro (LA), this kind of price is not attainable, so don't wait for it. I paid around $450 about 10 years ago.

The Aeron was a big disappointment for me. I've been using it for about 4 years now and I have to admit I preferred my previous Mirrah.

I've just went through this, after working from home for the last few months, my back is in extreme discomfort.

Trying them out in the store really doesn't help much. You can have a chair that feels very comfortable to sit in, but after a whole day working it starts to cause pain. You can also have a chair that isn't that comfortable, but you end up with no pain at the end of the day.

Now, the chair that I use at work I didn't have any input in -- the company provides the same model to all employees. One key is that it is the various adjustments, so you can get it to work for you. The other key item is that it is designed as an ergonomic chair, and as such I never had much pain sitting in it all day (now compare this to the chairs they have in the large meeting hall, even though they are padded I can't get through a 2 hour presentation without discomfort). So with that conclusion, I decided to just drop a large chunk of money on a well established brand (in my case I settled for one of the Steelcase chairs).

I figured that even though I really can't afford 700 on a chair, if it lasts 10 years that is $70 a year. That, and there is a 30-day return policy.

> if it lasts 10 years that is $70 a year.

You should really compare it with the cost of getting specialist help to treat a bad back after you're 40. It's unlikely to be less than $70 a year, and it will likely go on for more than a decade.

This is exactly how I justified my Embody purchase

This is exactly how I justified my Embody purchase. *I couldn't really afford it. But I can afford back problems even less.

I've had my Embody for just over 10 years now. It's been great, but the back doesn't go vertical enough for me (it's fantastic for slouching though). The plastic "springs" are starting to squeak with age. If I had it to do over, I'd have gotten an Aeron.

You don't need a $700 chair to avoid back problems.

The right chair will definitely help. The few times I worked from coffeeshops for a whole day, or at the kitchen table with a regular chair, my back was killing me by the end of the day. When I got a 2nd-hand Herman Miller Mirrah the improvement was massive and noticeable in a very short amount of time. When I moved to the current Aeron I didn't notice any difference right away but in the last year I started feeling crap again.

I have the Ikea Markus and can recommend it. Ikea chairs in general are pretty good, plus, 10 year warranty.

I second that (I've been using a Markus for >10 years). I only wish it had larger/adjustable armrests; though it's easy to replace them with something home-made (and reuse the mount points).

not as great right now, but their service is pretty good too.

I'd also shop online then check Costco for supply as they know how to do delivery/returns in this environment

I got an old solid wood chair from the 20s or 30s that was US Airforce surplus for free (I got lucky and had connections, but they can also be picked up dirt cheap at surplus places, don't look at antique shops, they'll overcharge you) and it's nicer to sit in than any fancy expensive $1000 chair I've had at fancy office buildings before. My lower back starts killing me in most chairs, but something about these old chairs really helps it despite having none of the fancy features of modern chairs. It looks awesome too, although it weighs about a ton.

Can you link a photo? I love good old simple furniture and will try to keep my eyes out for one.

Sure thing: https://imgur.com/poAth33

I also got a seat cushion for it, but honestly it's not needed. It's weirdly comfortable as is.

Ah, "that chair everyone had at the computer desk circa 1997"! :) Thank you!

Can you post a photo?

I despise all the fancy aeron chairs (they appear to be classic cargo cult science) and favor a couple of old Eames and Corbusier chairs. Just curious what works for others in the "chair that grandparents would recognize as chair" category.

I feel the need to move around a lot, typically alternating between standing and sitting. At home I also have several normal chairs I borrow from around the house and a yoga ball. About every 2 hours I'll take a break and change chair or stand.

My new job has Aeron chairs and it is the first time I have felt comfortable in a chair at work. This doesn't mean I can sit in one all day. I've been at many places with "expensive renovations" (i.e. conversions to trendy open plan) and the seemingly valuable chairs are always terrible.

It's this one: https://imgur.com/poAth33

I think it's actually later than I was saying, I looked at a USAF one from the 30s but I can't remember if I picked it or not. I'll have to see when I get back to my desk, it had the Airforce logo on the bottom if it was that one. If it was the other one, can't remember when it was from.

Looked it up; this is not the USAF one I was looking at, it's by Milwaukee Chair Co. and was manufactured in 1924 according to the stamp under the seat

I have an aeron and it has worked well for > 10 years.

I have tried a number of other chairs.

The only thing it doesn't do well is let you get way out of position, like being able tuck one of your legs under you and sort of slouch sideways.

I have noticed the prices going up recently though. You used to be able to buy a decent one at a used office equipment store for $200-300, but now the supply is low.

Yeah I know people really like their aeron chairs; I'm just gobsmaked by it and don't understand why. I've sat in all kinds of chairs and while some of them kind of suck, there was nothing special about aeron chairs other than their price. To me they were a standard office "bucket seat" with too many adjustments. Would rather OP's regular wood chair!

My favorite chair (admittedly not at all most people's idea of a good chair, and non-adjustable) is a comfortable contoured 'Bank of England' style chair from the 50s in hardwood. Around here they were bought in vast numbers by the state and used for 25 years in courtrooms and police stations and the like, and are now frequently found surplus cheap and serviceable. And I love it. Looking for 2-3 more to outfit my house for the long term.

oh yah, this is definitely in that mold (except it swivels, but otherwise basically identical to what I think you're talking about).

The problem is that these only work in one position, and it generally only works for one body size/type.

(I had one when I was younger)

The ability to sit for extremely long periods of time without discomfort or damage is much higher in a modern office chair. Though being able to try one out to get the right size is sort of important.

If it doesn't work for your body type that definitely makes sense, but this one does at least have a big cast iron mechanism that lets you lean it forward or back and can be screwed in and out to raise or lower the height, which is nice.

Same here. I just googled "1930s office chair," and the first few hits were all of a certain style. I was given one, and refinished it. The wheels are gone, and in their place, the bottom of the base is covered with self adhesive felt.

But I'm fortunate that I don't sit for very long. I actually work in hardware, and have set up the basement rec room as a lab, so I'm a little more mobile than someone doing pure programming.

Second best thing, seriously, is to cobble a standing desk by whatever means possible.

A chair with great back support is the best, cheapest investment you can make. Back pain is more expensive that you might think.

On the advice of Wirecutter, I got a HON Exposure: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-office-chair.... I got it for $200 in the before-times. It's worked out pretty well, but if I had known it was going to be my every-day chair for the rest of the year, I would have gotten a Steelcase.

I got one for home since I didn't want to buy another Gesture from Steelcase, but with Covid I went to the office and took it home. The back of the chair is weird to me.

What was wrong with the Gesture?

I love my Gesture, just not the price. I bought the cheaper option so I could have a "nice chair" at home too without paying the same price, but it really isn't that great. I found better chairs at Office Depot (when I got desperate for a new one until I brought the Gesture home)

I know people still using Aeron chairs that they purchased in 2001 era dotcom bankruptcy auctions. In terms of quality and longevity, something that costs $800-1200 might be worth it.

I’ve got two Aerons (one for my home office and one for my wife’s).

One I bought new in 2012, and another I bought a year later for $300 from a used office furniture store.

I found a manufacture date code sticker on the used chair and it was made in 1998. You couldn’t possibly have convinced me it was a 15 year old chair, it has held up ridiculously well.

They’re also really easy to repair; a metric Allen wrench set is pretty much all you need.

I know this doesn’t solve the “try them” aspect but I’ve used https://www.madisonseating.com/. They’re second hand, in good condition. While some are still > $500, there are a handful under that. I’m using the Steelcase Leap v2 which I quite like.

The trade-off with Madison Seating is they refurbish the chairs with aftermarket parts, and not more expensive ones. I'd want to replace the pneumatic bit with a factory part.

Thanks for that, I wasn't aware that was the case.

Have you noticed this being an issue? I haven't, but I'm only ~6mo-1yr in to my purchase.

I‘ve gone through many chairs. They all create issues if you are sitting long hours.

My new thing is to move the ottoman from the living room into my office. I switch between sitting cross-legged and legs forward like a normal chair. I’m digging the change up fwiw

I've been using a bungie chair from Container Store. It's not super fancy, but, surprisingly, hasn't been causing much pain.

I've had a "regular" IKEA office chair for the last eight years at home.

I've used first as a student, then on and off because I was working in the office, and now I've been using it "full time" for the last 3+ months due to covid-19 quarantine.

It's fine. Unless you have a specific, doctor-diagnosed condition, it's absolutely fine.

A regular person doesn't need much more, and doesn't need to spend 500+ $ on an office chair.

Expensive office chairs are for companies that can waste money, list that as capital expenditure, and brag with visitors/investors.

That chair probably costed 100€ at most.

An expensive chair won't make you more productive or a better thinker/programmer/sysadmin/whatever.

Have you tried a better one for an extended period?

I've sat in the various IKEA chairs at my local store, and while they're stylish, I wouldn't want to be in one for more than a couple of hours. There truly is a difference between them and chairs in the $400-800 price range that makes spending the extra money worth it.

I suspect you don't have much experience with high end chairs.

I spend 12+ hrs a day in my chair, so it's 100% worth it to purchase a nice one since a large majority of my life is spent in it.

Advice I've always followed: don't cheap out on things that separate you from the ground - shoes, mattress, chairs, tires, etc.

> An expensive chair won't make you more productive or a better thinker/programmer/sysadmin/whatever.

It actually does. When you can standup without pain or position in it ways that support you correctly with “high end” features like forward tilt.

Specifically to the Aeron - they have a 12 year warranty and are useable and comfortable for as long as 15-20 years. Most Commodity office chairs are Made with filler materials that decompose and don’t hold their shape and particle boards that slowly degrade in the bolt holes compared to an all / mostly metal construction.

Also the components like the gas cartridge are better in the nicer chairs and survive moves better based on my experience.

To each their own; there are great chairs on the market for $100-200 but don’t disregard all the great things about high quality seating.

I splashed out an obscene amount of money on an office chair when this whole thing started (Aeron). It's the second most expensive thing I own (I rent and don't want a lot of physical possessions). I figured that, just like a bed, if I'm going to be spending a lot of time in it that I may as well get a decent one. The amount is somewhat embarrassing but I don't regret it, nor does my arse and back.

This is a decent chair. $236.54 currently.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00BT2SR8U/

much better than anything at Office Depot or similar stores.

Make sure to check Craigslist for high end office chairs, especially if you're in a highly populated area. I got a Steelcase Leap V2 for $300. I've been using it daily for five years

Everyone recommends Aerons, so I gave in to it.

I haven't tried anything between £70 faux leather nothing from Amazon, and this (second-hand for £200, one can pay more or less) Aeron, but yeah, it's bloody good.

I warmed to it most after receiving it, when I realised that since it's a single chair that's so popular, you can buy every spare part! You can buy the upgrade parts that distinguish your chair from top of the line! It's simple, repairable, and comfortable. And people that know about such things and dish out awards for it say that it's elegant, too.

I've ordered repair parts for a 1980's Herman Miller from these folks and had a good experience. They also sell reconditioned Aerons and Steelcase chairs. You can get a Leap V1 for $399, or slightly more if you want custom printed fabric.

https://www.crandalloffice.com/remanufactured-chairs/

Don't forget that Aerons come in three different sizes. Here's how to know which one to order:

https://www.hermanmiller.com/content/dam/hermanmiller/docume...

Our company told us to take our office chairs home until next year.

You can sometimes find used Steelcase chairs (very high-end and ergonomic, often $600-$1000+ new) used at auctions for very cheap. I got a Steelcase Think for around $55 from one auction, and later on scored a lot of four Steelcase Criterion chairs for $16 total. Prices on Craigslist looked a bit worse than my local auction sites, but still much cheaper than buying new.

I have a very well planned home office. I've gone through countless chairs over the year trying to fix back issues. I introduced more weight lifting into my exercise (deadlift in particular) and I haven't had back issues in a couple years. I sit on my couch or bed for work most of the time -- which I've been told is supposed to be the worst for you.

I recently bought a lounge chair specifically for working in because I found myself preferring the couch over my desk due to knee discomfort. Lounge chair and a pillow for my lower back and I'm much happier than at a desk

Pull-ups are better than deadlifts. Deadlifts actually have a really bad risk-reward ratio

Those work completely different muscle groups and are not at all comparable

They're both hitting the back. That's not a different muscle group. One is literally hitting the uppers and the other the lower

They have little to do with each other. The lats are the primary movers in pull-ups, while they are only a supporting muscle in deadlifts.

Also if you are having general back troubles due to sitting, deadlifts are more likely to fix them.

Risk to Reward ratio. And no, deadlifts wont help with your sitting problems. Your lats are the ones that need stretching n that case.

Definitely; more comfortable chairs will only make you MORE relaxed, which will weaken muscles, which will cause issues.

I'm not saying to sit on an uncomfortable chair though, but, add exercise to your routine.

Note to self: Add exercise to my routine.

Deadlifts and other exercises that require grip strength helped fix my wrist / forearm issues. I did some personal training some time ago, when I started out I couldn't do push-ups because I didn't have the muscle, but also because my wrists hurt. I couldn't do deadlifts without assistance (wrist straps) because my grip strength wasn't there. Both of those were resolved in a matter of weeks.

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