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Comment by tasssko | Hacker News Reader

> They’re never nicer to you then when they’re trying to hire you. If they mock your concerns about the non-compete? RUN.

This is so true, I hope if you take anything out of this its that during the initial negotiating stages is really the only time you have any authority to negotiate. It is expensive for a company to adjust contracts to you however it's also expensive for you to defend yourself against them so don't be shy and when negotiating and everything has a value. So, for example, you could say the non-compete clause is inconvenient and restrictive as a result, you want an extra $20,000/ year (i.e if you get 3-4 years that is 60k) to cover potentially being unemployable for 18 months. Apply a monetary value to all of these irritating inconveniences. You only live once no point being enslaved by a contract.

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Years ago I took a job that was headquartered outside of my state. Did a phone interview or two and then got a offer letter by email that I accepted. A couple of weeks later they flew me out to the HQ for my first day paperwork and to meet everyone. When I arrived they had a number of contracts that I had to sign as a condition of employment, I was in a position to agree with them but made a mental note that in future I should get a copy of any contracts that I am going to be required to sign on the first day before accepting a offer. It would be terrible to give notice at a job and then on the first day at the new role be given a contract that you have concerns about.

I ask "Before I accept a offer of employment, would it be possible to see any contracts, employee handbooks, etc I would have to sign on my first day?" and you would not believe the push back I get from that question. I often hear "We don't share our employee handbook" or things to that effect. I explain that it is impossible to evaluate a offer that has terms I can't see and often the interviewer shrugs their shoulders and tells me that's just how it is.

I guess it works to weed out the jobs with bad terms. However I have a hard time seeing how any of this is enforceable from a legal perspective.

This is an interesting dynamic that I only learned about when my current company expanded to the US.

Here in Germany you generally sign a contract. The contract for a full time job covers a lot of ground, I think mine is about 12 pages long. Some highlights of the top of my head: - my title - my salary - my location of employment (can‘t change that without a new contract/my consent) - IP assignment (I negotiated different terms) - non-compete during employment (I don‘t have a post contractual non-compete but it would have to be covered here as well) - vacation - my willingness to travel

What‘s not covered: - discretionary benefits - anti-herassment policy - the right to use my image (this is an optional thing I signed later)

First thing I did after I got the contract was the call up a lawyer focused on employment law and have him review it for me so I know what footguns to press back on. Fairly easy and no bad surprises.

Yes, in the UK we have a similar "baseline" contract and there is such a thing as an unenforceable contract due to stricter labour laws and the potential for a contract to be unenforceable due to this.

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