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Nest Aware

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11 pointshsnewman28 comments

Before you install cloud-recording cameras in your home, especially from a major company which the police will check first, be AWARE that local and federal law enforcement can simply request your data from Google, no judicial search warrant required (as Google has no privacy interest in your data, and you have no privacy interest in data you voluntarily hand over to third parties such as Google, according to the US Supreme Court).

Basically a letter on law enforcement stationery will do: "We need access to all video, on an ongoing basis, from 123 Elm St., as it may be relevant to an ongoing investigation." Done.

Some people may be fine with this but many should think carefully.

Where do you get the idea that Nest/Google will simply hand over video from users without an actual warrant?

That's not what I'm reading/interpreting from the information here: https://nest.com/legal/transparency-report/

Where do you get the idea that a search warrant is required to get a third-party to hand over data about you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third-party_doctrine

And no, there's nothing on that nest.com page that says otherwise.

It was frustrating to discover that Google is pushing everyone to migrate from a Nest Account to Google Account without offering a path to migrate for paying G Suite customers.

Any companies that have Nest cameras + G Suite for employees are out of luck.

Yeah I noticed that, I've been using "Google for domains" or whatever they call it now for about a decade. I snuck in when it was free, but I do pay for extra storage and the nest subscription.

The account migration stuff is just confusing - "You must log in with your google account!" "No, not that google account, you can't use that!"

I have to figure the underlying reason is that Google can't trust that you, the user, own that Google Account as it actually owned by the entity that owns the GSuite organization. They are treating all GSuite users as transient in order for controls to be set up for what happens to user data when they leave the organization.

Of course, for you and me and hundreds of thousands of other who use a grandfathered GSuite, the user and entity are the same person.

Thus, for services that potentially have some limiting reason to not allow GSuite users to access, we hare orphaned for the time being.

I've been waiting FOREVER to either add a family member to my Play Music subscription, or me to theirs. Alas, neither plain Google Account nor GSuite account can co-exist.

There are dozens of other Google services incompatible with GSuite users.

It is frustrating.

Even if you set aside those legacy G Suite accounts, this is still also a problem for any business on a current paid plan. Nest even advertises their products to businesses here: https://nest.com/nest-for-business/

However, they fail to tell you that your company will be unable to use it with G Suite. There's nothing the administrator of the G Suite account can do either.

Yup, I went with Amazon music rather than Google Play Music because I couldn't have a family plan for my GSuite...family.

This is one of the key points that got me to start looking for other solutions, I have a single gsuite account for everything and they are forcing me back to gmail since they can monetize the account data that way

Nest makes too many decisions for their users that I disagree with. Not sure if other camera companies do this, but they used to give users the option to show a light or not on the camera and they since then have forced all Nest cameras to show the light, if someone is breaking into my house I would rather they didn't know where the cameras were so the camera could get a good look at their face. Secondly during COVID they just forcibly reduced the quality of the stream.

The light problem is solved very easily, by the way. Just use a small piece of black electrical tape to cover the LED.

The company that is gathering the most data about you online is now also an expert on observing people through audio and video surveillance.

Not a pleasant thought.

Is this an ad? What's "hacker news"worthy about this?

I would never pay anyone to spy on me 24 hours a day.

Lots of people do pay private security and alarm firms to keep an eye on things.

It's true that's generally not inside the home, and for most people it's unlikely to be video footage stored off-site.

I'm not sure how I feel about this, we have one nest cam that covers our entrance hallway, and it's off while we're in the house. I like being able to see what's happened while we're away (oh look, the cat came in...) but the privacy aspect is a little worrying. I guess I could get a generic camera and stream to my NAS, using "motion" to detect motion and then back up to the cloud... but that's non-trivial.

"it's off while we're in the house." Are you sure about that?

Yeah, I'd be able to see it using the network if it were streaming video, as I can when it's on.

If you mean "it might be listening! How do you know!" in the generic, fear-y sense then we can have that conversation about any network connected device you care to mention.

"then we can have that conversation about any network connected device you care to mention."

Agreed in that all devices are susceptible to 'listening' at any time without your direction or knowledge.

One way to ensure it's off when you're in the house: physically turn it off at the mains. :) I have one of these cameras as well, and I just flip off that outlet when we're home for extended periods (it's been off for weeks now thanks to quarantine). Since I've put up some smart-switch stuff, I could plug it into a smart-switch that automatically flips it back on when we leave...but that gets back into the "how do you really know it's off" territory, I guess.

I could, but then you can guarantee we won't switch it back on the day we get burgled.

If I don't trust the "on when it says it is" feature, I should probably just get rid of it.

Horrifying. My neighbor just installed one of those simple to use cameras in their windows looking at their driveway and our home. The old country had some basic privacy laws, but here I can't do much about it apart from installing blinds.

What is this fascination with recording everything at all times?

In the case of Tesla, Sentry Mode has actually led to plenty of vandals being caught. So there is a tangible upside there, and as far as I know there hasn't been any tangible downside of Sentry Mode.

I'm not saying everything needs to always be recorded, but for security it is clear that it can lead to favourable outcomes for the party that wants the security.

I understand the appeal, but I can't accept the siren song. Frankly, my security model involves living in suburbs. Seriously, how much security do you need and at which point is it too invasive?

You're fighting against a strong current. Mass video surveillance is inevitable and people are welcoming it with open arms. I highly doubt that lawmakers will legislate that people cannot record video of another persons property as a side effect of trying to record their own. At best they may start offering features that blurs out video beyond your property lines (technically possible, but difficult and would require some setup beforehand), however part of the selling point of the doorbell cameras for example is they're catching crimes on other people's property as well as your own.

I think most people get them as a deterrent to break ins, not to spy on their neighbors.

At least thats why I have one. I had my house robbed a few years back, which was actually horrifying. Insurance covered all the valuables, but the stuff that hurts is what can't be replaced like things from loved ones who are gone. Also your sense of security gets tarnished after something like that. I still wake up in the middle of the night sure that I hear people moving/talking in my house. Having a camera (and dogs, and just giving myself time to wake up and think things through) helps bring me back down to earth in those moments.

I can understand that having some unpleasant experiences in my city apartment. I will admit that dogs help.

I think my next house will be in the boondocks surrounded by forest with few to no neighbors.

As you noted they are aiming it at ‘their’ driveway. You house presumably just happens to be there, I doubt they have any desire to look in your house window. Aiming it at their driveway for most of us is not a fascination, rather you can see who is coming and going. Such as when Amazon says they delivered to your front door but you have footage of them throwing in your driveway, or video of someone driving by and looking in your mailbox, or when a snow plowed denies having hit your mailbox, and countless other relatively common scenarios beyond that of course capturing a burgler.

I think you would agree that his ownership ends where my begins. I understand rationale used. I have problem with the rationale stepping over the line of my property. We don't automatically accept excessive noise from neighbors. Why can't surveillance work the same way? Maybe tilt the camera not to violate my privacy? Is that so much to ask?

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