Ask HN: Would you work for Facebook? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: Would you work for Facebook?

13 pointsBeeBoBub32 comments

I am trying to decide on an offer for a SWE position at Facebook. Accepting this position will undoubtedly rapidly advance my career, and more than triple my salary. There are a lot of moral hazards one faces working for Facebook, and I'm looking for perspective from the HN community.

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If you have to ask this about a company, you probably shouldn't. I say this as someone who asked that (not about FB, but about somewhere else), then worked there anyway, and it turned out to be just as bad as my gut was telling me.

There are plenty of gigs where you won't have to ask this.

Note: this response is entirely about your own gut feelings and positions on things, and nobody else's. Not mine, not anyone else who comments here. YOU are who matters.

Would I take the job? I absolutely would.

Why? I’m a 40 year old programmer. I will hopefully make this year, what an average junior programmer at FB would make. To be sure, I like my salary, but at FB I would make more.

How would I justify it to myself? As someone who probably doesn’t come from a typical background for the average FB engineer (minority, father of 2), I would convince myself that I can be part of the positive change that the company should be looking to make. It can start with people of conscience at all levels.

Would I be bothered by the moral hazards? Absolutely.

You've already acknowledged that there are "moral hazards" working for the likes of Facebook.

The only rebuttal of that concept so far is "you can change it from within".

You could choose to believe that, and take the money.

The chances of you being able to make any change at all to how Facebook operates (from a "moral" point of view, disregarding technology) is similar to the chances that I will start shitting out golden eggs tomorrow.

If you choose the money, that's your choice to make, but don't kid yourself, you're choosing the money in spite of the "moral" issues, there is no realistic chance you can take the money and fix the "moral" issues.

You have clearly elucidated the major factors in your decision: 1. Career / salary 2. Moral hazards

Taking into account what other comments have touched on, I’d say that you should be sure to weigh your own personal interests. Honestly I find it hard to believe that every engineer at FB believes that every decision FB takes is right. As others suggest - being part of the machine, you will have a voice and you will be able to have some impact on the world, and at the same time you might be able to advance your career and income.

You haven’t discussed the alternative options - what else are you considering?

Disclosure: I have had a FB offer but decided not to take it.

Does SWE mean software engineer?

I've never gotten that offer (or applied, for that matter), so I don't know what I'd actually do in your shoes. But if I got the offer, and thought that I could really do it and give my all, then I would. The kind of credibility you get is the same sort that you get having gone to Stanford, or Harvard (also things I haven't done). It's proof-of-intelligence, if not proof-of-intelligent-life. Do you have other offers at places that are more in line with your morality, or a start-up that's just burning in your soul to be born? If not, I'd take the Facebook job.

The most important and irreplaceable asset you have is your time. Think very carefully about whom and how you spend it. You cannot get it back.

I hope I would pass on the offer if I were ever given it. I don't think Facebook is evil, but I value privacy too much to want to work for a company who has so often made business decisions that hurt people's privacy. I'm not going to lie, the idea of a 3x salary increase is tempting though, but I hope I wouldn't justify compromising my beliefs for money.

These kinds of salaries mean that if you reject the position, there’s a chance someone else without morals will accept it.

Anyway, accepting the offer doesn’t mean compromising your morals. You can always be a voice of reason within the company. Plus, having Facebook on your resume can open up a lot of opportunities in the future.

If they make you do something morally wrong, you can always quit.

Evil always pays more, because people want to be good; it's supply and demand. Doing evil stuff starts with telling yourself the lie that you can be good without sacrificing anything. And then when you get in the habit of doing stuff, it's extremely hard to react to changing events. I remember a scientist who worked on the atomic bomb project who wrote something to the effect of how everybody was really dedicated to beating the Nazis to the bomb and then all of a sudden it was like "welp, the Nazis are defeated, but might as well nuke somebody". People didn't question it like they could've because of the mental inertia. It's almost impossible to reevaluate what you're doing without being forced once you have invested a large amount into it over years.

You say somebody morally worse could take the job, but then again, that person might be less competent causing less damage to be done.

(I am not especially certain that Facebook is a supremely evil institution, just saying in general)

Is there a formal ceremony on contract signing to hand over one’s soul or does it simply evaporate when walking through reception.

Yes. In about a decade I would have the ability to retire (not that I would) meaning I could pursue whatever I wanted for the rest of my days. As someone else mentioned, time is your most valuable asset, and being able to spend the rest if your days how you want is in my opinion the ultimate expression of that.

Never. Disingenuous business model, a history of deceiving users, governments, and investors; seemingly no desire to create an innovation hub a la Bell Labs. Yeah, I'd rather do manual labor.

If you put it to good use, I'd imagine the marginal benefit of having a lot of money to do good things with outweighs the marginal cost working at Facebook.

"There are a lot of moral hazards"

I think this is really the issue. I've been in places I morally disagree with and so have many friends. You never really change the company; it just ostracizes you until they can fire you. For every person who wants to change things, there are probably 3 others who want to climb up the ladder and are happy to find a scapegoat to throw under the bus.

You'll end up depressed and demotivated, which makes it hard to do well at your job. And it's hard to find a better job in that mental state.

The difference between Facebook and a struggling late stage startup is that Facebook won't be shutting down any time soon, and if you don't like it, don't expect to be retrenched.

That said, it's possible that Facebook isn't that bad, but that's up to you to decide.

Why did you go interview for them if you had moral reservations? It's not like they dropped an offer out of the blue.

When you went interview for them, you already decided that money / career is more important than the "moral hazards", so stick to your decision.

OP could have applied for leverage in other applications to be fair.

Leadership and power comes from the top and ultimately Mark will continue to make the decisions in his interest. I'd vote with your conscience over the money. Chances are you'd still end up with a great job eating vastly more than the average citizen

For all the hate, I think Facebook does a lot of good in the world. Anecdotally I credit FB for playing a big part in bringing me together with my wife (we met in person at first, FB kept us in each other's feeds, rest is history).

My opinion: go for it.

It’s going to depend on how you judge those moral hazards and how much the money means to you and your life goals. It’s a lot to weigh up. Remember though you can always join them quit later if you find it goes against your morals too much.

^ This. With every reasonable person that leaves Facebook and isn’t replaced, it becomes easier for them to misbehave. You shouldn’t risk your well-being, but it’s worth considering the amount of information you’d gain and potential positive influence you could have.

Having the question is so important. Be glad you have moral struggles, you’ve got morals.

I think you’re brave to ask the community. Not my place to offer advice between morals and currency for anyone. Hope you are happy with your choice in the end.

Personally, I wouldn't because there are other options. If I were in your position, probably for a short while.

I'm basing this on when I did contract work for a large student loans corp. After I learned how they work, scandalously (and usually not well for the student) in the US, I still renewed once more.

[Mind you, it was near-absurd money. I didn't claim a Lotus signing bonus and instead bought myself a Mini waiting til the GTI came out--a fine commuter.'

If you can get an offer from Facebook you can probably get offers from less problematic companies, since you’re already acknowledging the moral hazard.

Me personally? Never.

No.

I don't want to be complicit to a nasty, unethical and sometimes criminal company.

I would also not be comfortable with my employer having that much insight into my private life.

I don't know, but I imagine I couldn't work at Facebook or even at Apple for long. Working in medium to big companies where they force feed you decisions has been one of the biggest sources of frustration in my career. I'd rather be the captain of my own ship, even if it's just a very small ship. We don't have kids so this is a luxury I can afford, for now.

Take the job. You'll gain extremely valuable experience and your career will be changed forever. If you don't like it, jump ship in 12 months.

Personally, I would absolutely. Preferably on Insta/WhatsApp/Video/Messenger though, I wouldn't enjoy working on Facebook's core product.

I would if I can work remotely without my salary being "rebalanced" for my location, and if this was my only offer at the moment.

I understand "moral hazards." But, in this economy, it doesn't pay the bills or put food on the table.

Congratulations on your job offer! What other alternatives do you have? Can you list a few big companies that align well with your moral compass and explain why they do so?

moral hazard - lack of incentive to guard against risk where one is protected from its consequences, e.g. by insurance.

It's unclear what you're asking.

Go for it. Be a part of the solution.

Sure. They’ll hire someone else if I don’t work there and I would like a Facebook size paycheck.

Take the job. Line you said it will advance your career and get you paid. As far as moral hazards, I think Zuck is doing the right thing. The so called “anti fascist” seem to be the ones that want to silence the free speech, which is racist right?

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