The Dactyl-ManuForm Keyboard | Hacker News Reader

The Dactyl-ManuForm Keyboard

github.com

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I'm currently in the process of building one of these Manuform keyboards. If anybody else wants to build one, here are a few helpful things that took me hours to find:

1. By far the most readable closure script. Has more features than any other script I found (killer feature for me: wide pinky buttons): https://github.com/ibnuda/dactyl-keyboard/tree/refaktor

2. The same script as a web-form without exposing every parameter. Generates openSCAD 3D files: http://dactyl.siskam.link/manuform

3. Nice assembly guide 1: https://nickgreen.info/dactyl-manuform-build-log/

4. Nice assembly guide 2: https://medium.com/swlh/complete-idiot-guide-for-building-a-...

The original Dactyl and Manuform scripts lack commenting, are hard to understand and lack some cool features.

This is pretty awesome.

For those who haven't explored ergonomic keyboards, 1) you should! take care of your hands! and 2) shit gets preeeeetty wild out there.

For further reading, check out ortholinear keyboards like the Planck [1], or crazier split designs like the ErgoDox EZ [2], or even "keywell" (or just "pit") designs like the Kinesis Advantage2 [3]. All require a learning curve (obviously!), but they offer some pretty immediately noticeable (in my experience) advantages for your hand health.

One of my favorite design items are thumb clusters like you see on the last two links here: why should your thumb be limited to just spacebar, and why should both of your thumbs do the same thing?

[1] https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/planck [2] https://ergodox-ez.com/ [3] https://kinesis-ergo.com/shop/advantage2/

How’s the Planck keyboard ergonomic? Wouldn’t it make me wrist twist too?

it isn't, though proponents will argue that the small size means you move your hands/fingers less

60% ortho boards reduce finger travel and reduce the horizontal travel, which is good (try moving your fingers up and down, then moving them left and right - it takes a lot more effort to move them left and right), but if you're going to invest in learning a new keyboard layout you should at least make sure it splits as well so that you don't need to bend your elbows and wrists.

I would not recommend just getting an ortholinear board for ergonomics. They definitely look cool though.

Amen. Also consider angling it as appropriate. In my experience the difference is pretty noticeable. Ergogox-ez has tent kits which are great. I picked up a couple of 3D printer angled risers that I use with my classic ergodox.

A non-split ortholinear board might even be worse as it causes you to bend your wrists even more than standard keyboards.

I picked up a Planck kit out of curiosity. I’ve always liked small keyboards.

However, I have a hard time understanding how it could be considered ergonomically friendly compared to something like the ergodox. The board is so small that it keeps my wrists at at odd angle when typing. It’s small and convenient when I need a quick spare but I can’t type on it for long.

A lot of people criticize the Planck for this, but I think the right way to type on a Planck is to treat it like its own beast. Rather than twisting your wrists to face the keyboard straight on, let them angle inward naturally. The grid layout means you don't have to contort your hands to reach the different rows, and if you let your hands "float" above the keyboard rather than putting pressure on your wrists it feels great. Another big mistake is using the default layout, part of the draw of a small layout is that you can customize the layers to your needs. It takes a couple weeks of getting used to but I loved mine so much I built a second one. I hate typing on a staggered layout now, it feels bizarre.

That being said, I have no doubt a split layout is superior ergonomically, but it takes up way more space and is more complicated. I would love to try out a Dactyl-Manuform though.

I have not heard good things about the ergodox's thumb keys. A lot of people say you need to stretch your thumbs pretty far to use them (even if you have big hands), which kind of works against the goal of not putting stress on your hands.

I’ve got the classic ergodox (a couple) as well as the ergodox-ez. I’ve been using ergodox for 5-6 years now and have never had an issue with the thumb cluster, but it takes some getting used to, and there is certainly room for improvement.

I’m a huge fan of the split layout, and I feel that split layouts are probably a much more significant factor when it comes to reduction of hand stress.

I have an Ergodox-EZ. The issue with the thumb keys is that its only natural or easy to hit the bottom 3 for most people. Some people can only hit the bottom 2.

That being said, having 3 usable keys per thumb is a game changer IMO and its the best keyboard I've ever used by far. For the ones that are harder to hit I map stuff that I don't usually use often while typing like the escape key.

I'm working building a Dactyl manuform. After I printed the case I put the keys in the thumb cluster and threw some keycaps on it to see how it works. IMO its far easier to use all 6 of the keys on the Dactyl's thumb cluster.

Also, the dactyl is intended to be further customized per user, so you can actually find variants with less thumb cluster keys if for some reason you don't want them. Some people have even customized them to have trackball replace one of the thumb clusters.

It took me about 3 weeks to get reasonably fast and confident typing on my Ergodox, after about 6 weeks I was pretty close to my original speed (approximately 120 WPM). IMO its worth the effort to learn and I will never go back to a keyboard without at least 3 keys per thumb cluster.

There might be a more efficient layout, but what I use my easily accessible thumb keys for is space, return, backspace, win key/mac command and other modifiers.

For something pretty similar to the Ergodox but with a better thumb cluster, there's the Keyboardio. However, they sold out of the initial run and they are supposedly going to be releasing a new revision soon.

It seems it's very polarising.

I personally hate it and I find only a single key on the cluster is comfortable for me. I do have to do big stretches or move the whole hand for the other keys.

There are many better alternatives out there.

>There are many better alternatives out there.

Its just like buying an office chair or a pair of shoes. Its not that there are better alternatives, is more like everyone should find a keyboard that's comfortable and optimal for them as an individual. The Ergodox-EZ is a great keyboard, just not a great one for you.

BTW do you have really small hands? Based on the size of it and my experience I would assume that most people could comfortable hit the two larger keys on the thumb cluster, they are right next to each other.

You're right that it's subjective. I do think the Ergodox is much better than standard keyboards, I just find the large number of (for me) unused keys detrimental.

Yeah I have slightly smaller hands. I also have problems with my right thumb that makes me extra sensitive.

Btw if someone wants to compare the key positions of popular keyboards see this site: https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/

Here’s my best effort at fixing the Ergodox thumb section under the constraint of still using a flat sheet of laser-cut acrylic and standard sized keycaps.

https://i.imgur.com/puH1Ge4.jpg ; direct comparison https://i.imgur.com/OqSwVJo.png

It’s much more accessible, especially for people with small to normal sized hands; all 6 thumb keys on each side are comfortable and convenient (but the back corner thumb key does require the extra tall keycap, so it can be pressed without running into the key in front of it).

See https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=62848 for extended analysis.

Yeah, I hated the ergodox-ez. The flat nature made for lots of awkward stretches, both in the thumb cluster and the middle columns accessible by the index finger. I switched to a kinesis advantage immediately after and have loved it to death since.

Concave, ortholinear keywells are the killer app in my experience, so the OP keyboard seems really interesting.

If you put non-flat keycaps on the ergodox (especially if the further rows have extra-tall keycaps) it gets a lot nicer to use. It also helps a lot to steeply “tent” the two sides, and experiment with their 3D orientation and position.

As a general rule, completely uniform keycaps should not be used unless either (a) the keyboard is built using a manufacturing process where the further keyswitches can be boosted higher up [e.g. IBM’s approach on the Model F/M with a curved barrel plate, Maltron’s vacuum formed plastic, or hand-wired 3d printed keyboards], or (b) there is literally no space for anything else, e.g. on a laptop.

The further rows should not be tilted away from the body though; the keystroke should still be in the same direction as the home row. The Kinesis advantage gets this wrong in my opinion, and the further away rows of keys are quite uncomfortable to use, especially the index finger number keys. The Kinesis thumb section is also in my opinion quite poorly placed and oriented. YMMV.

(The Ergodox thumb section is uncomfortable for many people’s hands in large part because Dox was closely copying the Kinesis.)

What keycap profile would you recommend? I saw this comparison[1] a while back, but not knowing what worked best (rather than looked prettiest) I still have the cheap DSA set.

[1] https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2v9zf5...

DCS is a concave profile, and you can easily get at least a blank keycap set in this profile for the Ergodox. This is what I use. The Ergodox EZ site calls this profile "sculpted" I believe.

https://i.imgur.com/ykdNLsz.png

I was no as big of fan of SA. The keys are, in my opinion, needlessly tall; too tall for me given the wrist rests I used. I have been floating my wrists for a while now though, maybe I will give it another shot.

I still pivot at the elbow for reaching the small thumb cluster keys. I move my whole hand to reach the outer corners too. I keep infrequently used keys like function keys there. I have seen people's layouts where they don't even assign anything to those keys.

There are several iterations on the Ergodox design, and a comparison tool for many split keyboard layouts is here [1].

Using a similar approach (before that website existed), I decided on an Ergodash[2], which I bought as a kit, but is also available assembled. The first and second thumb keys are easy to reach (I have them as Backspace, Ctrl, Enter/Ctrl, Space) but the outermost ones are too far away. I have these as a sort-of "Fn"/"Windows" key. I still thing it's useful to have the extra keys, since it gives me more options without having to learn too many multi-key combinations.

[1] https://jhelvy.shinyapps.io/splitkbcompare/

[2] https://github.com/omkbd/ErgoDash

Ergodox pioneered the genre of ortho split keyboard, but I don't think its the best in 2020. Minidox, Redox, Iris, Corn, Gergo all have better thumb clusters and are more compact.

Maltron pioneered the ortho split keyboard in 1980, and several companies made imitations since then -- Kinesis is best known, and is what the Ergodox was inspired by.

https://www.maltron.com/legacy-maltron-keyboards--archive.ht...

An exhaustive list on what makes a good keyboard:

https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/bmweh5...

The conclusion is that the best ones are: "Maltron, Kinesis Advantage, Dactyl, Manuform, Keyboardio Model 01, to a lesser degree ErgoDox-based designs like ReDox, ErgoDash or Iris"

Wanted to get the Ergodox, but now I'm waiting for the Keyboardio Model 100 to come out. Too bad, I really liked the look of the Ergodox.

I never understood why ortholinear keyboards aren't the standard. It's bizarre that the fingers on my left hand would move slightly to the left for the top row, but the fingers on my right hand would also move slightly to the left for the top row. And to the right, on both hands, for the bottom row. Fingers don't naturally move like that! My hands have mirror symmetry. Why doesn't my keyboard?

The number 6 exemplifies the problem. Touch-typing classes teach that it's pressed by the right hand, but the number row has drifted so far left that it's actually closer to the left hand. Sure enough, (non-ortho) split keyboards can't agree which side of the split to put it on. Sometimes even different models from the same company disagree.

Staggered keys is even crazier, to me, than QWERTY. There's no spending 2 weeks relearning where every letter is. There's no messing up spatial mnemonics like Z/X/C/V. It just instantly fixes your fingers from being slightly out of alignment.

And the craziest is when touchscreens do it. Keys were only staggered in that funny way to make room for the keylevers. Computer keyboards never had keylevers, but touchscreens really never had keylevers!

> I never understood why ortholinear keyboards aren't the standard.

Same as querty: it’s there so typewriter stamps don’t hit each other.

You aren't alone, the thing boggles my mind too. I like better staggered columns layout than ortholinear, but yeah staggered rows don't make any sense, I hate using the keyboard in my notebook.

Joking, I would say only Apple could find the "courage" to introduce columns staggered/ortholinear keyboards... ^__~

You joke, but I've wondered the same thing. Apple, of all companies, is happy to re-examine (or discard) the status quo. They dropped the headphone jack on many products -- as they said, it's "over 100 years old, used to help quickly exchange in switchboards". Yet their keyboards still look pretty much like a 19th-century Remington.

I would bet that if they dropped the staggered rows they would by followed by the rest of the industry in heartbeat.

Instead they put an OLED on it and in a single move they pissed off all the Vim users (or that's what I recall)... ^__^

You are holding your forearms at an angle. To reach things closer to your body, you move your right arm back and to the right. To reach things farther away, you reach up to the left.

So the question is, do you move only your finger when reaching for the number line, or move your whole lower arm?

More split keyboards:

- Corne: You usually have to solder it yourself, and source the switches/caps. A few sites will build it for you. [0][1[[2]

- LilyPro: Same as above. [3][4]

- Georgo/GeorgoPlex: [7]

Trackball: Someone mentioned a vertical mouse, those are really great, but I have been pushing trackballs on a few colleagues. A good in between is the newer logitech, that has a tilt mechanism, but its a thumbball. [5] You can find more options in at r/trackballs [6]. I can recommend the "Kensington Expert Wireless Trackball Mouse" and "CST L-Trac Blue Trackball", although the latter, the original company shutdown and are being manufactured by xkeys. There's also an open source trackball, ploopy [8].

P.s. buying keyboards and soldering them are great for a quick fix, but this hobby gets expensive quick. I am waiting on a few group buys; another 65% keyboard, another split keyboard and a few more key cap sets.

P.s.s. group buys can be a hit or miss (mostly hit), treat them like kickstarters, and maybe you'll get your parts in a year or so. At least in r/mechanicalkeyboards, a few users have recently been complaining a tad more about not seeing the final product v.s. renders.

[0] https://github.com/foostan/crkbd

[1] https://keyhive.xyz/shop/hotswap-corne-helidox

[2] https://www.littlekeyboards.com/products/corne-mx-hotswap-ki...

[3] https://keyhive.xyz/shop/lily58

[4] https://github.com/kata0510/Lily58

[6] https://www.reddit.com/r/Trackballs/

[7] https://www.gboards.ca/

[8] https://www.ploopy.co/

Ok, gboards are something straight out of Snow Crash. I didn't know I needed this, thanks a lot :)

We've been joking around about getting long trrs cables, wrapping around the back side of our office chairs and attaching the keyboards to the arm rests, go all Picard.

QMK supports mouse/trackball support, I think gboard and a few others support adding a blackberry track ball and we'd be aces.

The GergoPlex is Pi (the film) themed too, and I went full cyberpunk/Pi with it a couple weeks ago,

https://i.redd.it/l8lafyi9lvy41.jpg

The author has some great blog posts about his thought processes with the designs too. He's very heavily inspired by stenographic keyboards.

I built a crkbd using a PCB I bought from littlekeyboards.

I was a happy HHKB 2 Pro Type S user for many years, but since switching to the crkbd I have no intention of ever using the HHKB again.

It required minimal soldering (the ProMicro and OLED hotswap sockets). I went through a few sets of switches before I found what I liked, took a few months to find a combination of layers/layouts that worked for me, and had to learn how to use an ortho keyboard in the process, but it was all worth it. (I’m a Dvorak+QWERTY user, and think the switch to ortho was was easier than learning Dvorak, and has a similar feels good motivation to continue learning it.)

I never had RSI problems, but what I did notice was with the split keyboard and tented cases, my posture opened up dramatically. My shoulders no longer have an anterior tilt when I type.

This picture doesn’t include the copy of Mason & Dixon I use as a riser for the trackpad, but this is my setup: https://www.instagram.com/p/CArBEFgjsjH/

A while back I got diagnosed with carpal and cubital tunnel. After many, many hours of research, I eventually bought a Quefrency from Keebio (https://keeb.io/pages/assembly-service has the premade ones) to see if it would help. I can now confidently say, if you are worried about getting CT, or you have it and want something easier on your hands, you _need_ to check this out. Seriously, for most people on here an injury like CT can make you lose your job. The split form factor really helps alleviate the pain. Not bending your wrists or elbows helps way more than you can imagine. Even now my hands will still hurt if I use a regular keyboard but I can type on my split board all day long. The Quefrency also has the advantage of not being a different form factor (like the Dactyl), it's just a standard 60% split staggered layout (the smaller form factor helps reduce finger travel as well, but imo it's mostly the split). Plus, it just runs off a pro micro so you can flash your own firmware very easily (it runs on QMK which is open source)

I've also heard good things about the levinson and nyquist but I haven't personally tested them. I have also used an Iris for a while and like it a lot, but it looks like they're backordered for now. The viterbi looks a little big imho, but if you want a big split board it would definitely be a good option.

I actually am somewhat in the keyboard business right now (I got inspired by how well it worked, and it's really fun!), if anyone has any questions or needs some recommendations feel free to AMA.

BTW, if you end up going with a different form factor, be ready to type at 10-20WPM for at least a week or two. When I got my first ortho board, I typed at 13WPM and gained back roughly 5-10WPM a week. You can't use a standard layout while you learn, either, or you lose a ton of the muscle memory.

Seconding split keyboards. I'm in the process of building a Quefrency and it's fun. But to have something working right now, I bought the Kinesis Freestyle2, which is available for macOS and Windows, with a Bluetooth version to boot.e

About a year ago I bought half of a Nyquist (6x5 - 5 is standard height minus the F-row, which is not a big deal since you have a second layer) and a Vieterbi (7x5). That gives enough space to fit a full 60% keyboard layout, but unlike the Quefrency the keys are in a grid instead of staggered. Getting used to it didn't take long for me.

I can use the computer faster and more efficiently than with a full-size keyboard, since you have a second layer to put buttons onto and so your fingers don't need to move (it's completely programmable; add 30 layers if you want). I had two buttons, one where the Fn key is on laptops (lower left), and one where the enter key normally is (mid right), to switch to the second layer, where I had WASD,QE,RF = arrow keys, home/end, pgup/dn, and hjkl = arrow keys. This is very useful. And stuff like printscreen, media controls, etc. no longer require stretching your fingers or moving your hands. I had space in the corners on both thumbs, and backspace/enter right next to those on the left/right hands. Also useful and saves your pinky from long stretches to backspace. Positioning it naturally aligned with your arms & wrists is also great.

Overall, highly recommend the Viterbi - which would give you an extra column beyond what I had. But not sure how it would work in half paired with the new Nyquist revision; the Viterbi hasn't been updated yet iirc.

I built that one with loud clicky Cherry Blue switches; recently I switched to the newer revision Nyquist with quiet Matias/Alps tactile switches. The switches are great but very few keycap options; the official ones make it not that quiet since they're not a perfect fit with the keys and thus rattle. The Blues were great but eventually the loudness starts to become just slightly painful; now I use the `bucklespring` program on my computer to simulate it. The new Nyquist has the microcontroller built into the PCB, which simplifies assembly, and adds support for key backlighting, which is useful in the dark. The lack of the 13th column really hurts; with the Nyquist+Viterbi you get a full keyboard with stuff like the F-keys and arrow keys on the second layer. With this I need to put things like +=-_\ and []{} on the second layer. This effectively makes it a triple-layer setup for typing, since you need to use both shift and Fn to write characters, whereas previously Fn was for moving around and doing actions. Even after a long while to get used to it my brain often gets confused and I have to pause for a few seconds to try to figure out how to insert the character. But at the same time lighting is essential (to me) for working at night, and even if that wasn't an issue I don't want to spend another $120 on making a new Viterbi or Nyquist/Viterbi hybrid with quieter keyswitches.

So overall the Nyquist seems like the sort of thing hardcore keyboard enthusiasts would buy, and less suitable for programmers (maybe OK for other people). You can head over to /r/mechanicalkeyboards to find plenty of weirdos who would spend $50 on a single keycap and keep a collection of keyboards with 30 keys total.

If you don't mind sharing, what do you do in the kb business?

A slight tangent, but one very nice side benefit with split keyboards is that if you use a Mac and use a Magic Trackpad, you can fit the trackpad between the two keyboard halves and split the mousing load between your two hands. Just switching to this setup (versus a normal mouse off to the right) took a lot of pain off my right wrist.

Here’s a question I’ve been pondering, and I’m curious about the community’s thoughts:

To what extent should the distance between keys be customized to the length of the user’s fingers?

For example, being 6’1”, I have larger than average hands, with wider than average distance between the tips of my fingers, and if I pay attention, I can feel how my fingers feel cramped on the standard 104-key layout I’ve been using my whole life.

Similarly, I see comments here about the differences between people, and the sniff test makes me think it’s almost all about the different lengths of user’s fingers.

The Dactyl/Manuform keyboard is a shining totem of one of the deeper rabbit holes out there.

I know; I made it back out alive. My aspirational keyboard is a GergoPlex. I own other mechanical keyboards, such as a Planck EZ and an ErgoDox EZ. My actual daily driver is a Leopold FC660C with Topre Silent 45g rubber dome switches, modified with a Hasu FC660C Controller which can be programmed using QMK (or TMK) firmware. My layout is no longer taking most of my time. I use "one finger each hand" chording and "tap/hold" keys to access many custom layers for controlling my computer and editing in VSCode. My fingers rarely move more than one keycap off home row; my thumbs don't get much work.

When I'm evaluating a new cookbook I compare recipes I know cold. For comparison, "old school" shaving is another rabbit hole that I survived. What habit stayed with me? A brush and Mitchell´s Wool Fat Shaving Soap. If this has the ring of truth for you, you might draw my same conclusions about mechanical keyboards.

Years ago I owned three Kinesis Advantage keyboards. In a way, I loved them. I got rid of them because of too many systematic issues (stuck modifier keys, for example) one could trace to primitive USB hardware they could't afford to redesign. Their new internals might be better.

Every so often I'd try a mechanical keyboard to see what I was missing. I wouldn't spend enough, or get wrist rests to adjust to the higher keycaps. Only the better keyboards and switches are worth the trouble; I got hooked once I finally spent enough.

Our species wants to meld with machines. Many of us wish we could immerse our hands in nutrients and grow physical connections to our machines. I've met computer scientists working on brain implants; they talk about Alzheimer’s to get grants but their eyes are clearly on the horizon. The mind urge to do this instead in software and custom hardware is irrepressible. One needs to appreciate this to understand the levels of obsession in the keyboard rabbit hole. It's a realm where we all can be Thomas Edison.

Your results may vary, but many people conclude that the feel of Topre rubber dome switches is vastly superior to any of the hundreds of mechanical switches now available. This is an obsession killer. Why? You can't buy Topre switches separately. No one makes replacement keycaps, and the adaptors for standard keycaps impair the keyboard feel. The stock keycaps are fine but dull-looking, but what touch typist ever looks at their keyboard? Still, the majority of keyboard forum posts proudly show off custom keycaps. If one were to cannabilize Topre keycaps from an existing keyboard, the printed circuit boards are much harder to design. So one can't experiment with novel designs, such as the Dactyl/Manuform.

This leaves customizing the layout, which the Hasu FC660C Controller makes possible. Getting out of that rabbit is a separate problem, for which I don't have good advice. I had been fighting a basic urge to site my consciousness in my hands, a defining identity for our species. I wanted to be outside woodworking, rather than inside programming. Customizing my keyboard was a trick, to get my nose back in the kibble bowl. One day, I was satisfied with my layout, and I moved on. Now, I'm struggling with the urge to write a new programming language, rather than just coding the project I want to finish. I don't have hand issues requiring a more radical ergonomic design, but that may be partly that I don't move my fingers far off home row, even for modifier keys.

I built a GergoPlex a couple months ago and really enjoy it. I don't use it 100%, but switch to it for a few hours a day to get practice. I really like the chording features; "sd" for backspace, "cv" for tab, and others that I've customized using QMK to my particular tastes.

Originally the switches were Choc browns, but for this board they're a bit too heavy, and I went with gChoc switches that are super light and work better for chords and layers.

One issue I have is how low profile it is. I don't have a case or anything to raise it up and my wrists are either floating on the desk and it takes getting used to. There are some custom cases (like the gHeavy) but they're either expensive or back-ordered due to COVID.

This is an amazing keyboard, and the best thing: it's really easy to modify to suit your needs. I got to try a friend's Dactyl so I had a general idea of what doesn't feel ergonomic to me about it. Then I took some measurements of my fingers, moved the columns around accordingly, somewhat flattened the whole structure and printed it. And got the most ergonomic keyboard I could imagine. (Gee, I really should solder the other side one so I could use it... :s)

Of course this is a lot of work and not for most people. But the point is that 3D modeling anything from scratch is near impossible for a first timer, yet the dactyl family is easy to modify for anyone who can code.

I must take this moment to extol the virtues of vertical mice. I had severe pain in my forearm and wrist. I switched to a vertical mouse and that pain went away immediately.

I personally use a now 8? year old Evoluent vertical mouse.

Tell your friends and family. It's totally unnatural for you to twist your arm to hold a normal flat mouse. The vertical mouse is natural and like shaking someone's hand. Try it right now: Hold your hand out like you're going to shake someone's hand, and then slowly turn your hand to hold a flat mouse. Feel that tension? It's terrible for you.

I recently bought an Evoluent vertical mouse.

I'm not using it all the time, but one of the best features for a Linux user is the separate middle button. I find mouse-wheel buttons are often stiff, which is uncomfortable when copy-pasting a lot of text using the middle button. The Evoluent has a separate middle button, and a click on the wheel.

Why a mouse though? Mx ergo can be tilted to about 45 degrees and you don't even have to do a lot of weird arm movements.

I’m sure I’m one of many people here searching for the ultimate keyboard.

I missed the kick starter for the Keyboardio Atreus.

I’m looking forward to the launch so I can order one retail.

In short it’s a split layout ortholinear similar to the Planck.

Two killer features for me are Bluetooth (and wired) and QMK firmware that allows layers.

https://shop.keyboard.io/

Atreus is a split kb but on a single piece, so... not quite? For me the nice thing of a split keyboard is to have each half line up with my shoulders, feels really comfy to type like this (this way my arms rest on my chair's armrests most of the time).

I looked for a while for a nice split mechanical keyboard and I found all sort of crazy things, including the ones from [1]. In the end, I decided to try the kinesis gaming kb [2] and I really like it! (so much so I even got one for my brother :-) It has some cool macro recording keys and extra buttons to map and other features. Caveat: it is wired.

1: http://reddit.com/r/mechanicalkeyboards 2: https://gaming.kinesis-ergo.com/

The Atreus is by far my favorite keyboard, I have a Keyboardio that I never use because the Atreus is so great.

The key is to pull it off your desk and put it in your lap. You end up typing with your hands on your thighs, which feels quite natural and relaxed.

I have 3 pairs of the "skeletons" 3D printed, but have never gotten around to the hand-wiring part... It's hassle and one mistake leading to a shorted microcontroller will mean A LOT of desoldering.

It's unlikely that you'd make a mistake that would damage the microcontroller. The most likely failure modes are a key that never activates, or a key that is stuck activated, or a row/column that never activates, or a row/column that is stuck activated.

In the case of a broken row/column, if you can't find the problem visually, then you're stuck binary-searching your connections until you find where it is, but at least that's only O(log N) desoldering work.

Does anyone have any recommendations for one handed keyboards that are practical?

The only one handed keyboard I know of is the one made by matias.

Some people have claimed its pretty good. The company claims you can learn to type 80 WPM with one hand. They are super expensive because they were designed specifically for people that have only 1 hand, but there are some people interested in just using a single hand to type so they can work more efficiently with a mouse.

However, that might not be a great idea. Some two-handed keyboard reviewers have tried it out and at least one of them thinks its an absolutely horrifying device that he can't imagine anyone learning to type well on. He seemed to think it developed a reputation as being a good one handed computer simply because there aren't any other options.

See this review by Chyrosan of the "Maltron" which was also made for one-handed people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkGpFeUQ49Y

Which imo currently makes the best tactile dampened mechanical switches as well. Their quiet click switch is silent and tactile, with actually solid tactility (as opposed to just about every other tactile switch out there).

People have had some reliability issues though, so it's a mixed bag. They have recently gotten some new tooling, so hopefully they will start making keyboards that look somewhat not like a shit 90s keyboard.

Yeah, I love their switches but blew three of them in two years which is pretty unacceptable. I’ve used cherries far longer and never had that problem.

I still hope they can fix their issues. I am not paying 150 bucks for a keyboard that might stop working properly without reason. Then I much rather get a high quality rubber dome board. The tactility in those is generally fine (at least better than cherry MX brown), even though I am no fan of having to bottom out.

I am more interested in the newest addition to the unicomp portfolio. The "new model m" and their upcoming TKL boards seem like something I will like :)

I bought that keyboard back when it was $95 not $495. The principle is that holding down the spacebar accesses the mirror half that's not present. I didn't believe this, so I taught myself Dvorak on the half keyboard while continuing to use Qwerty on other keyboards. Then one day I got curious. Like that dream where you walk up to a piano and can just play, my other hand had learned its mirror image role, and I could immediately type Dvorak with both hands. Our brains really are wired this way. One could program this on any half of a two piece keyboard that supports QMK or similar.

Some people say wonders about the twiddler but I know nothing of it.

It's probably even more expensive, but Maltron make one-handed sculpted keyboards. Depending where you live, if you have an appropriate disability, your employer might buy it for you. Otherwise, they do show up on eBay fairly regularly.

(I have never even seen one, but I've seen strong online recommendations for them from people who can only use one arm.)

Another option would be left/right handed Dvorak, which is built-in on many OSs, or any other single-handed layout on a programmable keyboard.

https://www.maltron.com/store/p19/Maltron_Single_Hand_Keyboa...

Maltron looks and is amazing from what I hear.

I’m looking for something cheaper and smaller that can be used easily for setting up new machines etc. without needing to lug around a huge device.

Maybe either one half of a large ergonomic keyboard (with thumb buttons)[1], or a large grid of keys like [2] (but I'm not sure how programmable that is).

If I lost the use of one hand, I'd modify one of the ergonomic open source keyboards to have an eighth column, and... well, ask someone to make it for me. (One handed soldering? No...) I'd then set the Dvorak one-handed layout, which has 8 columns of letters, plus more of punctuation and numbers. The extra keys would be accessed by first pressing a modifier thumb-key, or by activating the "Caps" Lock for the number/punctuation layer.

Alternatively, I might stick with one of the existing designs (Diverge 4?) and move the Q, Z and X keys onto the secondary layer. (Though I would keep Z if my name were Zepto.)

With a keyboard running QMK[3], you can essentially program it however you like. A "Shift" key can be sticky (press shift, then the letter). A modifier key can select a different layer of keys, e.g. numbers and punctuation. A different modifier key could be a lock for that layer.

Pressing two adjacent keys simultaneously (e.g. JK on a Qwerty board) could be "enter" or "space". Or if there are keys it is practical to hold down, you can change the function depending whether it's held down or pressed (e.g. Enter or Ctrl).

Here's one possibility using the Diverge 4 right half: http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/#/gists/5ebe720a10b353...

[1] http://xahlee.info/kbd/diy_keyboards_index.html "Ergodox variations" (some are available preassembled)

[2] http://xahlee.info/kbd/ly092_mini_keyboard.html

[3] https://docs.qmk.fm/

You could theoretically set up an Ergodox for one hand use (or any similar fully programmable split keyboard). There are smaller split programmable keyboards too if size is an issue. You would have to make generous use of layers.

NKRO?

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