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Comment by mancerayder | Hacker News Reader

I asked a doctor about it and he said that since I'm not obese nor overweight, and I don't regularly wake up gasping, then I'm not a candidate.

I've had fitful sleep as far as I can remember. I wake up (and remember it) probably 4-5 times a night and I've been told I toss and turn all the time. I find if I take a calmant or a substance I can sleep through the night.

I have chronic inflammation includes Achilles' pain just as you describe. I'm in my lower 40's. I'm also a weightlifter and I do calisthenics - both of these activities 4-5 times a week. Oh, but I sit in front of a PC 12+ hours a day!

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Had terrible quality sleep for years. Snored, and had various other problems. But I am young and my BMI is 18 so I got brushed off by sleep lab after one night of testing didn't show apneas. Eventually figured out it was all due to my nose which barely functioned after healing crooked from an accident as a child. Septoplasty changed my life.

BMI of 19 with severe sleep apnea checking in. Never woke up gasping, never struggled staying awake, but I did feel like I enjoyed the occasional afternoon nap, and my partner reported snoring.

It’s worth getting checked out. I ended up going the dental appliance route because CPAP machines feel like a torture device to me. Anecdotally it’s made a noticeable difference. Haven’t had a nap in ages.

What does the dental appliance do?

Pulls your lower jaw forward to make room at the back of your throat. I had the Somnodent Air [0] for several years, but switched to a CPAP when my lower molars started to cant forward.

[0]: https://somnomed.com/en/dentists/somnodent/somnodent-air/

Same. When I was 28, I presented with terrible TMJ pain. Turns out my sleep apnea led to grinding my teeth at night, putting horrible strain on my TMJ all night. Got a mandibular advancement device (MAD) and fixed both issues in like day. Changed my life, slept great, felt great. But, these devices only work for 8-10 years before your jaw permanently changes and your bit starts misaligning your teeth. So I slowly transitioned over to CPAP when I felt my teeth no longer snapped back into place in the morning. After 3 years of CPAP and no MAD, my jaw is 95% back to normal. So keep that in mind. I'd also recommend getting a back-up dental appliance in case yours breaks, or learning how to use CPAP now while you don't need it. Some of the worst stress of my life was when my MAD broke and it took months to get a new one...ugh, I still have latent traumatic responses thinking about that point in my life. I had moved jobs and insurance so finding someone who would do it required significant searching. Medical insurance hates paying for MADs, you gotta make sure you have a solid TMJ disorder diagnosis from an MD and then find a dentist that will do it.

Please go see a sleep doctor, not a GP. I was diagnosed in my late 30s, and I was definitely not overweight at the time. In retrospect, many things that I thought were normal (or even positive) turned out to be very clear symptoms of chronic sleep deprivation.

I'll second this. I had sleep apnea but I don't remember ever waking up gasping - not even once. I only know about it because my wife said I'd stop breathing while I was sleeping.

Aside from sleepiness, what sort of symptoms did you have? Are you referring to mood disorder and/or inflammation?

One that really stands out is how quickly and easily I could fall asleep. Like, on a commuter bus, or watching a movie with people. And how I'd be asleep within seconds of getting into bed. I thought I was 'sleep efficient', turns I was just sleep deprived, but thought it was normal.

I'm super curious - what were symptoms of your sleep deprivation that you took to be positive qualities?

Your doctor is WRONG!

I spent 2 extra years barely half awake because I thought that, being thin, I could not have sleep apnea. Nor did I wake up gasping.

The 4 main risk factors are overweight, being male, over 40, and current or past smoker. But some get it while being 0/4.

Sleep apnea is one of the best serious medical conditions you can have, since the CPAP machine fixes it completely, with very minor discomfort!

The CPAP does not "fix it completely" for everyone. That is FALSE. Granted, the machine should make a noticeable difference, but it does not restore "normal" sleep in all patients. I would be interested to see statistics from a "CPAP satisfaction" survey. Instead of solely looking at AHI, ask patients to rate their sleep. There are at least a couple of commenters in this thread who are telling us the CPAP has not restored their sleep to "normal". CPAP may be the "Gold Standard" in OSA treatment but it is not the "Holy Grail" for everyone suffering from sleep disordered breathing.

Sure, I should have added "for most people" and "almost".

Wow. After reading these comments, I'm definitely going to look into it. I always found the idea of a sleep study (which my insurance btw refused to approve so it'd be out of pocket) annoying because ... heh, well, I was worried I would barely sleep at all in a clinical setting. Ironic, perhaps.

In my case, the sleep study was done at home. I just have to wear some gear at night for a week or something.

Then a week of CPAP machine for free to feel if it's helping (I feel no improvement, although wife said there was no snoring with the machine).

A (healthy-weight) roommate of mine would regularly stop breathing in his sleep. He was convinced he was fine until his girlfriend finally got him to do a sleep study. Got his CPAP machine shortly after!

Could fitful sleep be a symptom of overtraining?

Yes! But I'm extremely careful not to overtrain, also I've taken weeks off, etc., it's all the same.

My 5 days a week, btw, is not 5 days of very long workouts. This is a tangent but I used to do 3 days of 1.5+ hour workouts including heavy weight training (squats), and HIIT or other conditioning. All functional movements, no bodybuilding or anything. Now, I do 5 days a week of short 25-35m workouts. My body composition is way better and I feel less pain overall.

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