Archaeologists Identify Traces Cannabis in Ancient Jewish Shrines | Hacker News Reader

Archaeologists Identify Traces Cannabis in Ancient Jewish Shrines

smithsonianmag.com

23 pointslerie198223 comments

The same research was discussed two days ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23387374

My understanding is that medieval Rabbis (notably the Maimonides) explicitly discuss cannabis consumption and its psychological effects. The plant also gets some discussion in the Talmud but in the context of its use in fabric and as candle wick. It is speculated that certain plants mentioned in the Torah refer to cannabis but these strike me as a little tenuous. At the very least the use of cannabis as an intoxicant does not seem to be explicitly mentioned in the Torah. So I wonder, if it was commonly used for that purpose in the ancient middle east, why little to no mention of this? I mean, there is a mountain of detail about all the other minutiae of ancient custom.

For some reason I was under the impression that cannabis was a new world plant, but apparently it hails from Asia.

A (rather infamous? I recall a ton of controversy about it) wikipedia article for you:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charas

What is controversial about Charas?

Not charas, the wikipedia article about it.

Found it- https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/aug/25/russia-bans-wi...

Yeah, it grows wild in many Asian countries and in places like Japan, they're mostly unaware the wild variety is the same as the illegal variety.

https://soranews24.com/2014/12/03/in-hokkaido-theres-weed-we...

And there's a reason why there's a strain called Hindu kush(or I guess any variety called kush) it's named for the Hindu kush mountain region. It's been a huge part of Tibetan, Nepalis and Indian culture for thousands of years.

Anyone who's interested in the cultivation of cannabis or the historical production of hashish in thoseareas and the middle east should check out these books

http://www.thegreatbooksofhashish.com/

Especially if they're interested in seeing amazing photos of forests of 12 foot ganja trees in the Himalayan mountains where monks produce hash by walking through the ganja forests and brushing their hands through the trees to collect resin in the way they have for hundreds of years. Or seeing regions of Afghanistan where hash production went on for at least 1000 years before Russia and America's invasions of them essentially destroyed a millenia old trade.

Looking at some of those photos really connects you with the near prehistoric connection people have with cannabis in a way I haven't seen many other things do.

It really is a great theft to humanity what's occurred in recent history with it.

Hindu Kush! Nice mellow stuff.

> the wild variety is the same as the illegal variety.

The distinction being, of course: the wild variety becomes the illegal variety as soon as someone has it in their possession or cultivates it.

I was too, but then I remembered that the Assassins (Hashshashins) reportedly used hashish in their rituals and were contemporaneous with the crusades.

I've always had a pet theory that Judaism (and thus Christianity and Islam) had its roots in psilocybin mushrooms and cannabis, especially the book of Exodus. One of my Israeli friends always jokes that the story of Moses and the burning bush was actually about Moses smoking a joint, and if you imagine that Moses ate magic mushrooms when he walked up Mt Sinai, the story makes a lot more sense.

There's some theories that the burning bush was an acacia tree, which could contain DMT. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burning_bush#Biblical_entheoge... also https://www.rickstrassman.com/publications/dmt-and-the-soul-...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sacred_Mushroom_and_the_...

There are multiple books and research on the subject.

For people that have had psychedelic experiences, the link between religion/spirituality and these experiences, as well as the practices that produce them, is undeniable.

Here are some additional links besides the ones provided in sibling comments:

https://psychedelictimes.com/amanita-muscaria-and-psilocybin...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1620555026/ref=as_li_tl?ie...

No doubt.

Religion basically goes.

1. Take drugs and related stuff for fun or whatever

2. See something impressive

3. Cultivate your ability to use the drugs or whatever to investigate the impressive thing more closely.

4. Said cultivators impress the locals.

5. Locals document the whole thing.

6. Cultivators fall out of fashion, come into conflict with the local ruling class or for whatever reason disappear from public view.

7. But the documentation remains. Forming the seed of a new document-based culture.

8. Rulers of said culture forbid drugs and similar explorations. The scholars become a theological ruling class.

That comes off as kind of dismissive of religion, but if what you say is true, then what I'd like to know is, what sort of techniques were discovered in step (3)? I mean, if ancient priests discovered esoteric methods of getting more and more high, that... sounds... actually kind of awesome and I'd like to read about those methods!

It's dismissive of our culture. A bunch of dreamers we are, living in stories. Religion. The real kind. Otoh. Kicks ass.

Techniques : Psychedelics. Meditation. Breathing techniques. Controlled stress and pain. Fasting. Sleep deprivation. Theater. Sex.

Off the top of my head. A google might reveal more.

I'd be interested in continuing this conversation by email if you were interested. You can find my address in any of my papers (such as this one: https://philpapers.org/archive/ALEMSI.pdf)

Please don't take HN threads further into religious flamewar.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Please don't dismiss strange conversations as flamewar. And definitely please don't censor them.

It really inhibits our whole process of communication.

I am actually elevating religion above the usual scienceist-attitude that is so common these days.

Try to keep an open mind.

While I understand it is you and your colleagues domain to steer HN as you’ll see fit, I respectfully disagree with you here.

Perhaps @swayvil could have worded their comment better, and perhaps this simply isn’t the correct forum.

I don't think there is any evidence that psilocybin mushrooms were used in the Middle East until at least the mid 1950s when the Wassons brought them to Europe from Mexico and the Psychedelic era began. Further, there are no psilocybin containing mushrooms native to the Middle East:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/Pschoact...

So the psilocybin mushroom part of your theory strikes me as very unlikely.

The Sinai region is much too dry to cultivate mushrooms, AFAIK.

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