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Comment by CleanCoder | Hacker News Reader

I thought they always required a professionally taken photo? In Canada you need to go to a photographer (lots of malls and general stores have one) to take your photos and then stamp and sign them at the back making them eligible for passport submission.

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How does this make any sense as a security measure? Real criminals will always find a photographer who would produce whatever a picture they want and stamp it.

Presumably there is some level of traceability to this. If a falsified photo is found on a document used to commit fraud or other crimes, the photographer who enabled it would be banned, blacklisted, and possibly held criminally liable.

What prevents me from stamping "Walmart at 123 Example Avenue" then scrawling an incomprehensible signature on any photo I want? The stamps the shops use don't have any security features to them.

Unlike the old "guarantor" system where a licensed professional or public official (judge, lawyer, doctor, etc.) had to sign your application - basically, people who the government could verify the existence of and hold accountable - there's not very much traceability to the photo system.

Canada's guarantor system is still in place, although the guarantor currently doesn't have to be a licensed professional.

As an American immigrant to Canada, I don't see the point - the US has never in my lifetime had either a professional photo requirement or a guarantor requirement for its passports, nor even a digital requirement.

Certainly, paying someone like a pharmacy for passport photos is not rare in the US to reduce the risk of out-of-spec photos leading to a rejection. But that's just a common personal choice and not obligatory.

I suspect Canada's guarantor system is inspired by the UK's, though I don't actually know.

You may have found an actual use for blockchain.

I doubt this is going to prevent even a single serious crime.

In New Zealand you can take them yourself and submit them digitally when you apply for renewal online. I did it with my DSLR on its timer, then cropped and converted to JPEG with Krita or Gimp. I believe the new photo is compared to the old one by a person. Maybe our passport office is being a bit naive? It used to require more hoop-jumping though.

Well it ain't for nothing that New Zealand is Mossad's favourite fake passport when assassinating Palestinians in foreign countries. Probably other factors as well tho.

link?

This is the only time they were caught:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Israel%E2%80%93New_Zealan...

But it's safe to say that if they were caught once, they've probably done it numerous times.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepa... Another incident

Cool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Israel_%E2%80%93_New_Zeal...

I think it's less naive, I trust they're aware of the risks, and more that passport fraud of that sort just doesn't happen on a regular enough basis to require better security. Occasionally a Member of Parliament [0] or foreign intelligence agency [1] has a go, but passport fraud is overall low.

I'm sure they also have automated tools for detecting photo manipulation.

The whole process for getting an NZ passport is an order of magnitude easier than a European passport. Here in Australia I was able complete the entire process online, and they couriered my passport to me from the Sydney consulate. I also have a passport for a European country, and last time I renewed it, I had to make an overnight trip to the consulate and spend half a day getting my passport renewed. I needed to get my photo done by an approved photographer, and they also scanned my fingerprints to store in the passport's chip (they don't store fingerprints for NZ passports).

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Garrett_(politician)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_passport#Use_by_Is...

You can take them yourself in the US and print them out, although I think most people don't. I saved about $14 by doing that.

Same here, as long as you have white backdrop (large poster board from an old school project) and are able to crop/print it to the correct dimensions there is no need to get a professional picture. When planning the family vacation, were looking for any ways to cut costs a bit

Same. I had some taken at a local store, and thought they came out terribly. Not worth the money at all. Set up my DSLR in the kitchen on a tripod, digitally placed 2 right-sized copies on a 4x6, and printed them at the drugstore for less than a quarter. I used decent equipment, but a modern phone these days will take an acceptable photo. (In fact, I just searched the iOS App Store at there’s at least a few apps that claim to make acceptable photos.)

Plus, unlike at a photographer's, you can repeat this process in your kitchen 50 times if you want until you get a picture that you're happy with.

German passport photos (until now) could be taken by those photo machines that are all over the place. Australia requires a printed photo that’s most easily taken at a shop but doesn’t have to be.

Disclaimers: it’s been 6 years and 2 years since I’ve had to do this.

Weird. In Sweden its required to have your picture taken by a machine at the police office where you apply for the passport.

Same in Switzerland, alas it's the designated passport office and not a police station.

They have a specially kited photo booth, where you also leave two fingerprints for additional biometric verification.

In order to renew your passport you need to schedule an appointment withyour local passport office.

Last time I renewed, 2013, it took 7 weeks until the earliest available appointment, which was a bit surprising. I'm sure, though, there's an emergency shortcut for a price.

The new passport arrives two days later by mail.

In Finland you can submit your own photo through the internet. All applications are verified by the police so I don't see the issue.

From the article:

> Such manipulation of photos is typically invisible to the human eye, the researchers found.

By the police I do mean the Police, ie not just an individual police person or civilian working for the police. I'm sure they have both automatic testing AND human control.

No you can't. Only a licensed photography studio can do it [1]. You can, however, submit a paper photograph taken by anyone.

[1] https://www.poliisi.fi/passport/passport_photo_instructions

I literally can. Please don't spread misinformation when I doubt you even are a Finn.

https://lupakuvienvastaanotto.fi/Default.aspx

E: not to mention that the page you linked doesn't even say anything about prohibiting self taken photos.

You can register as a photographer very easily. I've been doing my own pics for years now.

You don't even need to register as a photographer (to submit other people's photos). You can do it as an individual just fine, as the submission page directly mentions.

Weird indeed. This is my second reminder today that technology does not spread equally around the globe. The other was hearing my wife ask the IT-guy in her company if they had a fax number for a form from the Italian government.

After having my photo taken at the police office for at least my two latest passports it's somewhat surprising to hear about so many countries still using "the old way". There are such obvious advantages both in security and convenience by having the passport issuer take the photo and the technology is obviously available.

I wondered about that. Hard to imagine any other useful (because lack of quality) use for these. Will they sue, or embed some new firmware with EURION and wireless whatever uplink?

In Australia, the photo has to be signed by a guarantor [1] stating it's an accurate photo. However the guarantor can be any Australian passport holder who's known you for over a year and isn't an immediate relation/partner etc, so it's not particularly fraud proof.

1. https://usa.embassy.gov.au/guarantors

The other part of that is that the original article mentions that often the morphing is not visible to humans, so its possible you can get a morphed image guaranteed just like any other.

Every time I've done this my guarantor hasn't scrutinized the photo, just glanced at it. And ditto when I've been a guarantor: "Hey al you sure you don't want to get a haircut before getting your passport?"

Quite a few Korea & Chinatown will beautify your photos and submit them. The ones I been to will do so without even asking. They've been around for a while.

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