And let's be honest: it's not like this is brain surgery. If they really wanted you and needed to put together a stock grant to do it, they would.
So treat it like any other job: if the compensation and work interests you, go for it.
On the other hand, if they don't currently have an option plan, they're probably not a true startup.
BTW, are you (tptacek, not the company) in Chicago or NY?
I'm in Chicago. Half of us are in Chicago, the other half in Manhattan.
Our office is upstairs from the best coffee shop in the loop, and I'll happily buy anyone who comments on HN coffee any time. My contact info's in my profile.
But it still isn't a startup. :-)
By the way, we launched product today. Obviously, we don't much give a shit about our website at the moment; our "real" website is the blog.
Once you have been there a while your true value will be obvious (especially when you produce, in a _nice way_, comprehensive documentation at your first performance review).
Please be clear that I am not advocating salary blackmail (pay rise or I quit) tactics. However reasonable and friendly negotiations periodically is not an unreasonable thing to request.
For most of us the company at hiring time is seeing a choice beteen you (an unknown risk) and someone else (also an unknown risk) and while they obviously have a preference it may not be that strong. However after twelve months they will be evaluating you (a known, and hopefully respected, certainty) and someone new (an unkown risk) which is a whole different game.
(Changing the mem and arts usually requires a shareholder meeting, and can be contested in court if the interests of minority stock holders are not taken sufficiently into consideration.)
In addition even if you do hold stock of the same class as the founders that won't always prevent you getting screwed over. The board might sign up to a sucky deal through innocence, incompetence or collusion and condemn you as a side effect.
Remember, this is all at-will employment - either of you can end the relationship at any time. This is where an equity grant/option with cliff vesting comes in. 4 yrs with a 1yr cliff is fairly standard... In other words, if you get fired or leave before 1 yr, you don't get that equity/option and it reverts to the company.
"it doesn't matter whether they have a stock plan yet. It is not as if a pre-existing stock plan really protects you; after multiple rounds of VC, any deal that was on the table when you started will have been rewritten many times over."
Somewhat true, you are liable to be diluted over subsequent funding rounds, but then so is everyone else. Its no excuse not to grant options immediately. Its not as if the basics of options change with subsequent funding rounds. The only thing that should matter is the strike price at the date they are granted, which means you want to get them ASAP.
Even if they issue stock at a later date, I don't think they can start your vesting date from they day you join (check on this). Also the price would change every month and you will probably get it at higher price than right now (in the cents not $).
All that said, if you like the people, the market for which they are building a product, your role in the company go for it with ONE condition: Typically companies have a 1 year cliff, in this case, if the company takes X months to issue stock, you can ask the company to reduce the cliff by 12-X, which is fair. If they take longer than 12 months, count this as experience and move on.
good luck!
Given that any losses you have are likley to be limited to a few months salary (unless you work in a field with low mobility, or they have a huge non compete) I wouldn't worry too much and then consider any equity to be pure bonus if it does turn up.
To put it in perspective, we just made our first non-founder employee - a senior developer - and we gave up 4% to get him. It's on the high side, but as a first hire and someone who we didn't want to lose, we were willing to give that up.
That said, the legal costs with creating an option plan (and registering for business in the state if it's a DE corporation) are not insignificant. Especially if they don't have much money yet, and want to spend that mostly on talent, that can be a factor here.
If they haven't done an equity round yet (i.e., valued the company), then the stock is effectively worthless (par value is probably $0.001 per share or something in that range, and normally you would see something like 5M shares authorized and outstanding). So in this scenario, an option with this strike price is effectively the same as an equity grant.
We were lucky - we're doing our initial stock purchase agreements now (we incorporated awhile back but had to redistribute some equity as involvement with co-founders changed) and we were able to include our first hire in that plan. We all have the same vesting schedule - 4 yrs prorated with a 1yr cliff - but our initial dates are a year or so earlier than his. This saved us at least 5k in legal fees.
My advice would be, like ajross and pg suggested, to negotiate what equity will be granted - even if they don't yet have the means to grant. And, if they wanted, they could also sell you shares under the same original purchase agreement (assuming they have a vesting schedule they're happy with, and they had some authorized but unissued shares).
Basically, if you want the job and like the company, take it - but if you don't negotiate the equity now (even if it can't be executed yet) then don't expect it later.
If you suck well there's no guarantee that they will keep you anyways.
Main thing would be -- would you enjoy relocating to the west coast? If you never get any benefits other than the salary, would that be enough? Have you considered whether the place you are moving to might have higher/lower costs of living?
"Oh yeah you'll get a 15K raise if we like what we see after 3 months" - then 3 months later somehow you always fall short of their expectations
Unless you feel you have a better option...
Don't think 'If I perform really well - they will compensate me fairly'. (speaking from experience)
So in my case I would say it worked out fine even though I didn't get rich.