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Comment by mrweasel | Hacker News Reader

If Apple had two versions of their laptops, one with the touch bar and one without, I feel pretty confident that the version with the standard F-keys would outsell the touch bar.

I mentioned this before, but the real proof that the touch bar isn't for professionals is that you can't buy an Apple keyboard with the touch bar. Local labor laws require that I have a "external" keyboard when working at my desk, so the touch bar is pretty worthless, unless it was available on the standard alone keyboards as well, and it's not.

Personally I prefer the old keyboard because I find it easier to change volume and brightness using a key and not a slider, but that's personal preference.

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Or could it be that it just pulls too much power for a cordless keyboard? There can't be much room for batteries in those keyboards.

If the non-TouchBar one was cheaper then I guess you'd be right. But all else equal I imagine people would want it. I quite like it, of all the things that have been wrong with the previous lineup of Macbooks, the TouchBar really isn't one of them.

However - the way Apple implemented the TouchBar leaves much to be desired. You need something like BetterTouchTool or MTMR in order to make it usable.

> Local labor laws require that I have a "external" keyboard when working at my desk

Whaaa? Why? Where?

Denmark, among others I assume. Using your laptop, without external monitor and keyboard is only allowed as an exception, even when working from home, and only for a short period of time.

You can use the laptop monitor as a secondary display. It's a pretty good law, which forces employers to provide you with an ergonomically sound work environment. You're also required to have a height adjustable desk and chair... and a window.

Honest question: How does that work for remote? I do have a home office with a window, chair and whatnot, but many of my colleagues don't.

One option was to ban working from home, which was my employer's official stance.

On 13 March, we took from the office anything we needed (monitors, keyboards, mice, desk chairs). No-one said they didn't have a desk, so I don't know how we would have handled that.

Your employer is legally required to provide you with chair, desk, keyboard, monitor and mouse if you work from home and don’t have these things already.

During the corona lock down my boss told us to get anything we required from the office. If you couldn’t pick it up, an intern would take the company van and deliver anything you’d need.

A window is amazing! My first 3 jobs were window free as were jobs 7 and 8.

I've had 9 jobs total in the 25 years I've been working professionally and those 5 windowless jobs, account for about 5 of those years. I burn out pretty fast in the dark.

Also the UK (and probably many other European countries)

> Whenever possible, users should be encouraged to use a docking station or firm surface and a full-sized keyboard and mouse

From https://www.hse.gov.uk/msd/dse/ and the resources linked from it.

When one of my colleagues insisted on using the laptop keyboard, we made him sign in writing that he'd been offered a wide selection of keyboards and didn't want one, and understood he could take a keyboard at any time.

I'm guessing that in the countries that have such laws, nobody is going around and enforcing that people are working with external keyboards in their homes, but instead, employers are probably required to provide this equipment if an employee must work from home.

Among workers, I imagine such laws raise awareness of the risks of working for too many hours on a laptop keyboard. I wish I had such awareness before I developed bad RSI pain after working on a laptop too much during previous WFH stints. Now I'm much more careful about my home work setup.

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