Military Helicopters Descend on Washington in Bizarre Low-Altitude Show of Force | Hacker News Reader

Military Helicopters Descend on Washington in Bizarre Low-Altitude Show of Force

thedrive.com

Anyone who's been around large helicopters knows exactly how much this is about a show of force, and has nothing to do with keeping the peace. The last thing you do with a large helicopter if you care about people's safety is hover over them.

This is why I did not enjoy the "health care flyovers" recently. Normally when we have flyovers, it's meant to say "look at all the might we have to use in protecting you". Even that's not particularly appealing, knowing that that might is going to be turned against most likely undeserving people. But the recent flyovers really felt like "look what we could be using against you". And now here we are.

if they hover too low and someone tethers them down theyll know it then hell breaks loose

Reminds me of the protests in Egypt.

Except in Egypt the military did it to show that were with the protestors and getting ready to swap the dictator out.

With a Red Cross. You’d think that wouldn’t be allowed, but who out there is enforcing what things are supposed to be allowed?

How often do we think they've done that in other countries?

Who is “we” or “they?” I’ve certainly never done it. It has been terrible every time someone has done it.

We, the people in this discussion; they, the US military.

Laser pointers are about to be bought out everywhere if this keeps going around the states. What is honestly the point of this? Show of force? Cool. Lots of people look scared based on these videos. Not.

Visors block them, that said even if they didn’t blinding a helicopter pilot hovering over a crowd is probably not a good idea.

If you use a laser pointer on an airborne vehicles cockpits, you are attacking them lethally and must expect lethal reaction also. Please DO NOT do this.

This seems like a fun game:

> If you perform low-altitude flyovers while citizens exercise their right to assembly, you are attacking them lethally and must expect lethal reaction also. Please DO NOT do this.

Don't justify an exaggerated response like this. A laser pointer is not lethal. There is no comparison between a laser pointer and the armaments on a military helicopter.

You underestimate the risk. Targetting a laser into the cockpit has a non-negligible chance of dazzling/blinding the pilots, possibly with lethal outcome. The light beam will refract and scatter through the glass/transparent plastic.

Well i guess in a few days we might see some new generation drone and autonomous weapons too which were under wraps so far.

I wonder how long until the first protestor flies a DJI drone into a military helicopter turbine intake?

That would be interesting, considering the feeble drone would have to fly against the massive rotor downwash/draft to get near them. Could also be they have some sort of wire mesh against foreign object intake installed...

Then you would only need the drone to go over the helicopter, then let physics find the way in.

How fast does the rotor spin? To shred, or not to shred, that's the question here...

I can only imagine this will increase the number of people carrying lasers now.

This can get very ugly when the personnel assigned starts wondering if this is really what they signed up for.

https://soundcloud.com/the-daily-beast-politics/trump-audio

President Trump on severity of response to protests.

> The UH-72 in this instance has red crosses on white square backgrounds on its door and under the fuselage

This is absurd. Is that not a violation of Geneva conventions?

https://ihl-databases.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v2_rul...

D.C.

GWOT brought back home… how unexpected…

The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening?

It started with violating the rights of non-citizens by throwing them and their families in cages. Its building on centuries of black oppression and a nationwide corps of officers lead to believe certain class of Americans to be less than human.

Today, the president used American Military-lite in a completely unnecessary display of machismo, to terrorize groups of peaceful Citizen protesters and continues to do so by semi-wartime methods. The CBP has offered its help in brutalizing another class of people; these are the same group of people who have been let loose on border communities with little repercussions for their actions.

Unchecked, the fascism will grow until there is nothing left to contain it.

Its clear to the present occupant of the White House that winning fairly is not possible. Using emergencies as a pretext for grabbing on to power is an entirely predicable playbook, and yet Americans seem utterly powerless to stop what they know in their hearts is going to happen.

We are listening, but honestly I don't know that to do. I feel helpless and scared (which is what they want, of course).

I feel the same way. What exactly can we do other than vote? Protesting doesn't seem to actually work (in America anymore at least).

Have you tried prolonged, painful protest? That’s what I am preparing myself to do, mind, body, and soul.

Honesty feeling hopeful for the first time in awhile, bullish on protest and I think that tech can be leveraged in a significant way

Maybe you are right and I won't pooh-pooh anybody who participates, but what about when Freddie Grey was killed? Similar thing happened in 2015, protests around the country and that didn't seem to accomplish anything. The protests now are much larger it seems this time, but unless they go on for a while (which I hope they do), I just don't see anything changing. It seems like law enforcement isn't going to have a sudden change of heart because people are telling them they are wrong and local politicians don't seem to be effective at enacting change in their police departments.

The American people made their preferences clear in the 2016 election. That clearly does not work.

General strike.

Default on debts, boycotts, deplatforming and platform advantages that could be leveraged. Lots of ways to cause pain where it hurts most...

Authoritarianism is on the rise and with the US, China, and Russia becoming ever more powerful I’m having a hard time imagining a future without it. It’s depressing.

Are the people who didn't vote four years ago going to the polls this time? Complacency is no less of a problem.

Can't listen over the sound of businesses being burned down and innocent people crying out of terror.

I don't understand this. The warning signs of the current administration's fascist-adjacent policies have been here for four years. Please do not pretend that it's now that Americans cannot heed those signs due to protests, especially when the protests are partially in response to the current administration.

More that many Americans will now see fascism as providing a certain method of protection. Plenty of authoritarians are popularly elected based on some threat.

I find this to be a much more compelling commentary and concern than the one I replied to. If what you mention does happen, it will be legitimately frightening.

At least when authoritarianism hit my home country (Venezuela), we could leave.

If we go back to the Kent State shooting, Gallup found that 58% blamed the students and 11% blamed the National Guard.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings#Aftermath...

I don't see it as a crazy idea that shooting some protestors would be popular.

I've told friends that I have a sinking feeling a Tiananmen Square-like event might happen soon in the US. I predict that there will be people online arguing the semantics of what constitutes a "massacre" or a "tragedy."

I hope we never get to that.

Did you see the videos of police SUVs driving through the people? The tank in Tiananmen Square actually stopped.

That was just one tank though. You can't really compare what happened in Tiananmen Square to what's happened in the US.

Well, yeah. Fascism tends to be popular, even though it’s really bad and needs to be resisted.

Destroying businesses and disrupting the lives of innocent people is not how you convince them to go along with whatever you want. Is that how they will proceed from now on whenever they need something from the people? What a bunch of garbage.

The vast majority of people in those cities would've already supported them. And they bite that hand. Often hands just as brown/black as theirs...they don't care, because what they seek is power, not justice.

The looters and violent people at these events are distinct groups from the protesters.

There are many groups, but the most effective one is a right wing movement that is trying to start a second civil war by touching off race riots. Apparently international anarchists, and foreign governments’ misinformation campaigns are also making strong showings. Trump claims Antifa is too (though he has not provided any evidence to back that up).

Some of the right wingers have been caught with bombs, etc. Some have been firing weapons into crowds in an attempt to get police to shoot innocent people (and at least one person in Louisville was killed this way)

All of the major US news (except fox) networks are covering this continuously and showing pictures of the perpetrators, etc.

If you don’t believe their reporters, they also usually live stream the protests from the ground and the sky, so you can see for yourself. They covered a half dozen cities tonight.

I am certain to be in the minority, but how is this much different than seeing humvee and military armored police vehicles rolling down streets as of late? The helicopters were performing recon and visuals, again how is that different than police helicopters in LA that follow high speed chases? This particular helicopter story feels overblown and out of touch.

> at least under Federal Aviation Administration rules, this maneuver was very illegal.

> § 91.119 Minimum safe altitudes: (b) Over congested areas. Over any congested area of a city, town, or settlement, or over any open air assembly of persons, an altitude of 1,000 feet above the highest obstacle within a horizontal radius of 2,000 feet of the aircraft.

> New York Times reporter Thomas Gibbons-Neff said that one of the Black Hawks had flown so low that it broke a large branch off a tree with its rotor wash, which fell, but thankfully didn't injure anyone on the ground below.

So who do you think is going to prosecute that? For that matter, how do you plan to get passed power of the Pardon the President wields?

The Senate abdicated their responsibility and chance to hold Trump accountable. This is the outcome.

I don't like the looks of either side of this bloody conflict.

I don't disagree. We're descending into authoritarianism due to the utter lack of checks and balances. I was just responding to the comment above that questioned if the news was "overblown". Doesn't sound overblown to me or the various people reporting on it.

Look, I want to be clear. I think the Democrats had a case, but didn't pick their issues correctly at the impeachment. I also think the Republicans completely missed the point that their candidate had totally shattered pretty much every historical bound of decency in terms of responsible, dignified behavior as expected of a President. If that vote had been much closer, we might see a bit more restraint coming from the President's office right now. That didn't happen.

I just want to be clear that there is nothing that makes me more nervous than a President who is shown no sign of being second guessed by the Legislature, especially during a crisis. It wouldn't even matter if roles were reversed and it were Hillary in the White House with Democrats in control of the Senate. I'd still be calling them out.

It is so easy to get carried away by the reins of power. Most people do not realize just how well equipped the Government is to go full authoritarian if it came down to it. The only thing that has kept that from happening has been our value system doing a fairly decent job of keeping that tendency in check. Or at least it seemed to be prior to 2001.

You can take a look at the videos yourself. Go on snapchat maps, click near the WH. That[0] is not "recon and visuals," that is a military helicopter intimidating US civilians on our own soil.

[0]: https://s.sc-cdn.net/1KO38_D-saomzlpaMCGJvY96UMxYdW5Lsb-9MzD...

Last night these "peaceful" protestors burned a church directly across from the White House. The Lincoln memorial was defaced. The World War 2 memorial was defaced. The military has to protect the capital.

And this is a fire and police department set ablaze in Minneapolis: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8UO8ppmbjK8

You've lost the plot.

Lol. Absolutely unnecessary use of police brutality against minority communities and peaceful protestors leads to more intense protestors and violence. And your response is “you’ve lost the plot”.

Stand this one out. You have no understanding of the situation on the ground.

It's illegal for the military to monitor US citizens. It is illegal for them to police non-federal property.

Wasn't this past curfew (7pm in DC), which is illegal for them to be gathering?

Indeed it was a curfew violation. That is not a valid reason to illegally use the might of the US military.

Playing devil's advocate, didn't they call in the national guard though? That's what the national guard is. I guess I am not surprised at seeing military grade machines.

The national guard has a bad track record, but at least it is legal and their job. The US military cannot legally do this.

The devil seems to be doing just fine without any help these days.

> Indeed it was a curfew violation. That is not a valid reason to illegally use the might of the US military.

Is that a law you can cite or your opinion? I’m really asking, IDK

Last night they attempted to burn a church directly across from the White House. These are domestic acts of terror. The military's highest responsibility is to protect the nation.

Arson is a crime, but a crime worthy of the US military? That feels insane.

The choppers were by all accounts being used against groups of peaceful protesters who were nowhere near the church in question. They were not the ones involved in the arson.

Are you familiar with how America got started?

I don't think this is relevant for your parent, but I wish more people considered this to put our current events into a proper context.

The Boston Tea Party was a riot by the colonial residents and it was an instigating event in the Revolutionary War.

The 2A is a threat that the people will (and according to founding fathers should) rebel if the government becomes too tyrannical.

> The alarm bells of fascism are ringing loudly, are the American people listening?

When people feel that their security is threatened, they welcome fascism with open arms.

Large numbers of Americans are going to cheer this on.

It sure seems like much of the nonsense sweeping the world is rooted in the technical design on the web.

The internet we have punishes educated, honest, kind, good actors. The internet we have rewards ignorant, dishonest, malevolent, connivers.

It's hard for the average person to reason about political issues when trolls and grifters and morons monopolize the public discourse.

I know from another thread about how the police use indiscriminate violence instead of de-escalation that this is totally ok with about half the people here. That half can go fuck themselves

EDIT: Can someone not possibly support peaceful protests and the police shutting down riots/looters?

We've banned this account for repeatedly violating HN's guidelines. Please stop creating accounts to do that with.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future.

Emailed. No answer. Now shadowbanned... seriously?

"Shadowbanned" means banning someone without telling them. I told you in the comment you're replying to.

It's impossible to answer every email right away. You'll certainly get an answer, but I can't promise when. If you saw the catastrophic mess that is the HN inbox, you'd understand why.

I'm not an American but a Canadian who has Canadian friends down there. People who would never have considered buying guns up here are purchase one per family member down there because of the riots.

You have a crazy country. Stay safe.

Have you not seen Montreal protests? Police suiting up in the same gear and getting ready to fire the same less lethal rounds in to crowds.

My friends are scared of the protestors, not the police. Their fear is that the police will not show up if overwhelmed.

Violence in Montreal seems well contained for now.

Leaked audio of Trump call with Secretary of Defense essentially ordering use of force and control, using the term war in reference to protest/LE/Natl Guard relations, 3rd link down on https://linktr.ee/jonalmostfree

I just finished it, what is the part exactly is the problem? What is the timestamp of the offensive part?

Considering that it was a private administration call they didn’t intend to be public, I’m not sure “you gotta arrest these people” over and over is wrong.

I must have missed it in my first pass, can you help me out with a timestamp?

This post was at #2 on the front page, and then it disappeared completely.

Because god forbid this country's descent into fascism is discussed instead of the newest cli tool to be rewritten in rust.

Forcing/encouraging the populace to wear masks, thus anonymising them, at the same time that many of them have lost their jobs and are unable to enjoy a social life, may not have been a good idea...

We have masks and an economic crisis in Europe but we don't have street riots.

The problem here is (other than underlying systemic issues) a pretty stupid attitude from the administration which went for confrontation rather than accomodation.

In areas where there is a heavy population of migrants, you do have riots:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-riots-...

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