Norimaki Synthesizer: Taste Display Using Ion Electrophoresis in Five Gels | Hacker News Reader

Norimaki Synthesizer: Taste Display Using Ion Electrophoresis in Five Gels

research.miyashita.com

95 pointshomarp18 comments

This works on "tastes" at the lowest level definition of "taste", in other words tongue sensations. But what we think of as "taste" is actually a combination of this and of smell or aroma.

Smell is much more complex and relies on detection of the shape of the particles by the olfactory receptors (see: http://cst.ufl.edu/taste-vs-flavor-whats-the-difference.html).

It could be possible to simulate different aromas with a fairly small number of scent molecules, and there has been some work in that direction (see: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/227512326_Aroma_sim...), but no successful commercial product has ever been launched (that I'm aware of) based on this technologly.

So while interesting, this 'taste synthesizer' and anything like it is not going to enable anyone to taste anything that really tastes like a food.

Isn’t John Carmack working on smell for VR?

That said I wonder what would come first these external stimuli emulator or a neural link, by passing the external sensor seems to be the most straightforward way even if it’s much more complex on paper.

It's my guess that early brain-machine interface is going to require a fair amount of training and conditioning to interpret information across the interface. I think attempting to locate, isolate, and stimulate specific nerves that carry these sensation is going to be way more difficult than just exciting the receptors at the ends of those nerves. I'd anticipate "displays" emulating external stimuli preceding brain-machine interfaces.

You could have a bank of carboxylic acids and various alcohols and perform https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fischer%E2%80%93Speier_esterif... on the fly perhaps... You can make a good number of scents that way.

Damn, so you're saying this isn't gonna be smellovision?

> but no successful commercial product has ever been launched (that I'm aware of) based on this technologly

iSmell is the closest that I know of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISmell

The device looks like a big roll of norimaki, but there's another angle on the use of sushi for this project. Sushi is unique among savory foods in that it is usually eaten at room temperature. The lower serving temperature means that sushi emits fewer volatile esters, hence less smells, at least before chewing starts. The lower initial odors of sushi are one of the reasons that the look of sushi is so important: the colors and symmetry trigger the salivary glands in lieu of savory smells.

To create a device that simulates flavors but not smells, it makes sense to start with foods where flavor is more important relative to smell versus other foods.

> Sushi is unique among savory foods in that it is usually eaten at room temperature.

What? There are heaps of savoury foods served at room temperature. Antipasto, salads, cold cured meats, etc.

There's also a device consisting of an electrode array for the tongue to attempt to provide an additional sense:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5523951/

"Tactile Vision Substitution (TVS) was the initial motivation for designing the TDU. With TVS, a user-controlled video camera captures a real-time image from the ambient environment and provides a spatially-corresponding tactile stimulation to the user’s skin."

Japan has a long history of appreciating quirky (often useless) inventions, I think there’s a certain aesthetic quality to these gadgets that resists easy definition.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chindōgu

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoshiro_Nakamatsu

It's funny how it's called a 'Display' like it's for the eyes.

It should be called a 'setup' or taste smorgasbord.

Taste generator, or perhaps Tasterator (In voice of Doofenshmirtz)

tastinator, I think you mean.

Perhaps I do

AFAIK, in academic VR parlance, the word "display" is used for anything that outputs sensory information, regardless of the type of sense being targeted.

I think we've encountered a vocabulary black-hole.

And after reading the actual article, Norimaki doesn't quite roll of the tongue but I see where the author was headed.

I mean there are braille displays which are intended to be read with your fingers.

Hopefully the norimaki taste display, will soon be followed by the kimchi odorphone.

The naming braille display makes more sense than most. They do replace a text output terminal and even work very much like a raster display with small height dimension. The users of the devices also probably also map sensing of it to parts of their visual cortex.

With sight being the most developed sense, we often default to language that refers to it. And many people are visual learners. We have expressions like "I see what you mean" being used to communicate technical matters and "I feel you" or "I hear what you're saying" to convey more emotional things. "I get what you mean" or just "I get you" can be used for either.

Even when studying Human-Machine-Interfaces and ergonomics in school, we were always talking about displays and controls. It's no wonder we have touchscreens for everything now. I wonder if we're going to get a generation who don't know what it's like to drive by feel and sound and smells of burning oil and rubber or other things with non-visual feedback loops. Perhaps another good reason to learn to play an instrument.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com