U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens | Hacker News Reader

U.S. Should Open America’s Doors to Hong Kong’s Citizens

bloomberg.com

> it’s easy to forget that many oppressed and subjugated people around the world still look to the U.S. with hope

It's easy to forget because it's just a fairy tale Americans tell themselves. Oppressed and subjugated people flee to the nearest country that isn't the one oppressing them. Often that country is in fact China (from North Korea).

This article doesn't even pretend to be talking about saving oppressed and subjugated people though; it almost brags that the idea is for the US to cynically "benefit from the human capital that created [Hong Kong's] wealth".

The people this article is talking about - the "financial and creative genius" - could walk into any country they wanted to, if they wanted to leave their home. They don't need the US.

Rich Western countries will for the most part, only accept the best and the brightest, refugee or not. People who under different circumstances, would still have been able to jump through the various hurdles to immigrate legally.

I read plenty of stories about the million plus people that have been afforded entry to Europe in the last few years. Yet there is very little in the English-language press about the millions more that have made their homes, for better or for worse, in neighbouring countries like Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.

Best and brightest are wanted but that overlooks the millions of immigrants who are not so by qualifications and yet they still achieve success. So having these prequalifications is kind of silly. America's construction boom is fueled by immigrants as is most of Los Angeles restaurant scene.

I'm curious, do you think the Chinese people have been so brainwashed that they are incapable of considering the U.S. as a beacon of hope? The only interest America has in Hong Kong is purely financial. We've not done much to support democracy and freedom over there.

> I'm curious, do you think the Chinese people have been so brainwashed that they are incapable of considering the U.S. as a beacon of hope?

I think Chinese people who think of free countries where they'd rather be are more likely to have in mind Taiwan, Singapore, South Korea, Japan or other Asian countries than the US.

> The only interest America has in Hong Kong is purely financial.

Yes. This article doesn't even refer to the people of Hong Kong as people, simply as assets for the US to exploit.

> We've not done much to support democracy and freedom over there.

I think there's a tendency for people to forget, or simply disregard, that Hong Kong is part of China. Should China be doing more to support democracy and freedom (independence) in, say, Puerto Rico?

What would be the diplomatic consequences of this? I'm assuming China would be very unhappy with any country making this offer to Hong Kongers, but perhaps I'm wrong and they'd prefer for dissidents to leave.

Minimal real diplomatic consequences, other than China issuing some loud statements that they're furious at the US meddling in their internal affairs. It might amount to 100k-300k people as a max range.

It's an excellent opportunity for China to demonstrate the superiority of their system, as they so frequently claim.

We'll play a little game. Open immigration into China for US citizens. Open immigration into the US for Chinese citizens. Let's see who gets the most immigration (it'd be lopsided 1,000 to 1 with millions of immigrants flowing into the US; we did it with Cuba from ~1960-1980, there's no reason we can't do it for people wanting to flee China; if the next Democrat President is smart, they'll implement a variation of this to create a more aggressive and persistent brain drain on China).

The last thing we need is another Nixon moment of opening America to China. This has not proven to be in our best favor, aside from the multiple Chinese viruses that have floated our way; trade imbalance, current manipulation, gross human rights violations, IP theft, hacking, subversion of elections, oh gosh the list goes on. America must close the door on China.

Somehow I don't think China care much about the people, so long as they can lay their hands on the wealth. The way they trample over the HK system, most of the elites and international connections will evaporate in a matter of months, and all they will have by the end of the year would be the crumbs of society.

Here’s a recent, though very limited, example of Germany giving asylum for Hong Kong independence activists in 2019 - with China’s public response at the time:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-germany-hongkong/ch...

China is trying control overseas diaspora. Especially dissident voices. Exporting anti-state voices outside Chinese reach has long term consequences. A lot of anti-China sentiment is driven by previously persecuted groups that can be easily instrumentalized by western powers. Western Uighur, Tibet, HK, FLG advocacy groups have been very active for the last 30 years, and now their issues are magnified when aligned with western state interests for propaganda purposes. China doesn't want another generation of dissidents influencing with countries abroad.

My guess is, HK nationals with linked anti-state activities will likely be denied ability to leave the country. If relations between China and West get particularly acrimonious, this will include foreign HKer with foreign passports who reside in HK under their HK citizenship - i.e. they get treated as Chinese nationals foremost since they never renounced their HK/Chinese citizenship. Many HKers with goldenticket passports who thought they could protest (read: foreign influence on Chinese affairs) consequence free may be in for a surprise. The entire situation can get off the rails.

I think what China is most likely to do is Integrate HK into greater Bayarea, squeeze protesters into margins of society and out of HK by blacklisting them from local opportunities, disperse 4/7 million rebellious voices until it's drowned out by 66/70 million pro-CCP voices. Basically what Social Credit was designed to do: expel non-productive people or those that burden Chinese development out of privileged areas and visibility. Indoctrinate new generation to comport to CCP values, replaced displaced dissenters with mainlanders. HK becomes just another tamed Chinese city.

Add the UK to that list too.

Yes, perhaps they could come to the UK and protest against the way the British government allows its citizens to be extradited to the USA. The existing British population seems a bit too meek in that respect.

The United States should take the radical position that Taiwan is a country separate from China. Especially now, why is this not getting more attention?

China should take the radical position that Hawaii is a country separate from the US. Especially now, why is this not getting more attention?

Same logic as yours. But even more relevant as Taiwan (Formosa) was historically part of China, whereas Hawaii was a separate kingdom annexed by force by the US.

I think it's safe to say that in an election year and with everything else going on, the likelihood of this even being proposed is close to nil.

Yes, let's provide as much cheap labor as possible in a time of record unemployment! What could go wrong?

> cheap labor

This does not describe the Hong Kongers likely and able to emigrate.

yeah, even without considering who is likely and able to emigrate, HK median income is higher than the median income of some U.S. states.

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