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Comment by Animats | Hacker News Reader

The current big problem with online food shopping is that it's being done by sending low-wage people into ordinary supermarkets. This is inefficient, but until recently this was a niche market. The trouble with doing it that way is that the ordering system doesn't know the inventory. You get some subset of your order. That's no good.

Webvan tried to do it right 20 years go, with local fulfillment centers and automation, but they had 3% market share in 30 cities, instead of 30% market share in 3 cities. Cost per order was too high. The Webvan execs went on to Kiva Robotics and Amazon Fresh, and Amazon will probably try this again. They have the market penetration.

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>The current big problem with online food shopping is that it's being done by sending low-wage people into ordinary supermarkets. This is inefficient, but until recently this was a niche market.

I agree. People definitely want online/delivery grocery shopping. The problem thus far has been product misses on giving the customer what they want. Ordering online today is too much of a crap shoot. You'll get 80% of what you want with 15% replacements of a dubious nature, and 5% unfulfilled.

If I could have "near-perfect" online shopping for a $5-10 delivery charge... Sure. The one time I've really tried it was when I had a broken foot and doing a full grocery shopping was a PITA. So I used delivery. I'd get most of what I needed with some questionable substitutions. But that was mostly OK because driving to the store and picking up a few things in a shoulder bag wasn't a big deal. Just a full grocery shopping was.

I haven't even tried in the current situation. If I go relatively early on a weekday, I find it pretty manageable and uncrowded.

You're describing what Peapod always was for me, for the three years I had it. I'd still be using it if they hadn't stopped delivering here; they spoiled me to the point I'm not even going to try Instacart/etc.

The one exception was that you couldn't choose your own substitutions, but you could toggle whether to get the substitute or just not get that item (so at least you don't waste food if it's something you really don't want).

Peapod was what I used as it was the only thing available where I live until quite recently.

It wasn't terrible but, for me, it didn't really end up eliminating the need to go to the store which under normal circumstances pretty much eliminated most of the value.

That's basically what Amazon Fresh is. $5 or $7 delivery tip (I leave what they suggest), no extra fees assuming you've got Amazon Prime, and comparable prices to in-store at Ralph's. I very rarely have things out of stock once I order, produce is generally good, meat has been great. I think the warehouse-direct-to-consumer style is the way to go, rather than shopper-goes-to-store-for-me style. Peapod, in the sibling comment, is another similar option.

Today I received my first grocery delivery from Walmart. I'm extremely excited. I chose no substitutions so only one item wasn't available. What I love about it is that the person picking up the food actually knows the store. Walmart launched pick-up service over 2 years ago and now they're extending that with DoorDash for delivery. Granted, the delivery people still have problems finding my home, but access to Walmart's inventory is a huge improvement for me. Previously I was using Shipt and half of the time they'd just drop products like bananas or frozen blueberries or something else because they couldn't keep up with whether it was in the store or not, or if the store changed brands. The past 4+ orders from Shipt all had mistakes, usually multiple. Either incorrect product or just flat didn't deliver product but charged me for it (in that case I'd get a refund, didn't mess with wrong products).

Theyve been trying to extend it with DoorDash for awhile. If you ever read /r/DoorDash...well, DoorDash drivers fucking hate it because Walmart's clienete is the least likely to tip, the most likely to order 20 packs of water, and the pay is complete garbage and no different then restaurant deliveries. It's basically an insta decline for most.

Amazon does this sort of direct fulfillment under the Prime Now name. They don't do a great job of keeping a consistent set of things in stock, though.

Kroger brands also do this. But you can still get inventory problems - something the system thinks is in stock on Monday at noon when you place the order can be gone by Tuesday at 6 when they're packing your order for you.

Both of those have been way better in my experience than Instacart, though.

> Amazon does this sort of direct fulfillment under the Prime Now name.

Do they? When I order, the food comes from my local Whole Foods in a passenger vehicle, and I get the same OOS issues as Instacart. How is the process any different than how Instacart works?

I guess this varies by location. Prime Now for me (in Paris) comes from one location in the city in a delivery van.

Prime Now gives me three options, one of which is simply directly "Amazon" and comes from an unmarked building that I've happened to drive past a lot.

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