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> For example, did you know that in the postwar 1950's, the lack of polarization and divisiveness in American society was widely seen as a major problem, because it didn't provide enough voter choice between the two parties?

There was not a lack of polarization and divisiveness in American society.

The divides in American society and politics didn't map well to the two major political parties because there was a major political realignment in progress and the parties hadn't yet aligned with the divides in society.

The problem was the divide between the major parties not being sharp on the issues where there were, in fact, sharp, polarizing divides in society, preventing members of the public from effectuating their preferences on salient issues by voting.

So are you saying polarization makes it easier for people to vote? It sounds plausible and undesirable.

> So are you saying polarization makes it easier for people to vote?

No, I'm saying that the description that polarization was absent is wrong.

I'm also saying alignment of the axis of differentiation between the major parties in a two-party system and the salient divides in society makes it easier for people to make meaningful choices, and feel they are doing so, by voting.

When there are sharp polarizing social/political divides, as there were over many issues in the 1950s, and they are not reflected in the divides between the parties (as they often weren't in the 1950s), then the government cannot represent the people because the people cannot express their preferences on important issues by voting.

In the 50s and 60s, there were really four parties, joined into two by coalitions. On the Democratic side, there was a social democratic, leftist faction, tensely allied with a Southern party (the Dixiecrats). On the Republican side, there was a pro-corporate but moderately liberal faction (the Rockefeller Republicans) allied with a harder-line conservative/liberatarian faction (the Goldwater Republicans).

Two things happened in the 60s and early 70s: the Goldwater faction largely took power in the Republican Party, and because the Democratic Party embraced civil rights, the Dixiecrats first flirted with independence (George Wallace's campaign) and then gradually switched parties, so now we have the oddity that there are people who fly Confederate flags but are registered members of the party of Lincoln. Many people who would have been Republicans in the old days are now the moderate/neoliberal faction in the Democratic Party.

So we still have four parties, they were just reshuffled. Now the tension in the Democratic Party is between the old FDR/LBJ new deal supporters, and their younger socialist allies, and the more pro-business neoliberals. On the Republican side it's between the business side (they don't care much about ideology, they just want to make money) and the hard-core conservatives.

I am sorry to say, this seems like a thoughtful answer but there is a lot of nonsense in it is as well.

For example, pluralism doesn't state there is no way to "find truth", but that in light of multiple views, to have good faith arguments, avoid extremism, and engage in dialog to find common ground.

> but there are genuine ethical arguments on all sides.

These ethical arguments, however genuine they may be, are not equal however, otherwise, you would be falling victim to making the false balance fallacy, commonly observed in media outlets, or the "both sides" argument we have so unlovingly become aware of in recent times. The False balance fallacy essentially tosses out gravity, impact, and context.

> That most of human progress over the past couple of centuries has resulted from companies doing what's most profitable, despite how non-intuitive that is.

Despite the over-simplicity of framing it as companies simply doing what is most profitable, this is, in fact, extremely intuitive, and has been studied, measured, and observed. I am curious what you find unintuitive about it?

> But I am saying that supposing there's some kind of obvious right ethical answer, and implying bad faith towards people at Facebook that they're somehow making decisions they genuinely believe to be wrong but making anyways, is not accurate.

This view may be true in a vacuum, but it is irrelevant. We live in American society, and there is an American ethical framework in which Facebook's actions can be viewed as unethical. Other countries that have this similar issue have their own ethical frameworks in which to deem Facebook's actions ethical/unethical.

> American ethical framework in which Facebook's actions can be viewed as unethical

I'm curious what you mean by this, because I'd expect the American values of independence and free expression to be counter to wanting Facebook to actively supress divisive discourse. (Yes, I know the first amendment only applies to the government; the point is the spirit of the "American ethical framework")

> pluralism doesn't state there is no way to "find truth"

To the contrary, that is literally what pluralism as a philosophical concept says. You can read up on Isaiah Berlin's "value pluralism" [1], for example.

> These ethical arguments, however genuine they may be, are not equal however

On what basis? Again, the entire premise of pluralism provides no method for comparison.

> this is, in fact, extremely intuitive

Many would disagree. You might enjoy reading [2], which explains just how hard it is for citizens to understand it, from the point of view of an economics professor.

> and there is an American ethical framework

Except there isn't, that's the point. For example, Republicans and Democrats obviously believe in deeply divergent ethical frameworks. And there's far more diversity beyond that. Plus there's no way to say that any American ethical framework would even be right -- what if it were wrong and needed correction?

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_pluralism

[2] https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=999680

I dunno: the last sentence of the abstract of [2] is:

> A better understanding of voter irrationality advises us to rely less on democracy and more on the market.

To my mind this immediately brings up the question of why people who are irrational voters would be expected to be rational economic actors.

- - - -

...Ah! I just looked at it again and saw the sub-heading: "Cato Institute Policy Analysis Series No. 594"

PLONK!

> For example, pluralism doesn't state there is no way to "find truth"

Well, there are lots of different ideas lumped together as “pluralism”, but most of them not only hold that there is no way to find truth on the issues to which they apply, but that there is no “truth” to be found.

> We live in American society,

Some of us do, some of us don't.

> and there is an American ethical framework in which Facebook's actions can be viewed as unethical.

Sure, but there are many, mutual contradictory and, often mutually hostile American ethical frameworks, so that’s true of virtually every actor’s actions, and virtually every alternative to those actions.

The profit maximizing (shareholder value) argument is fairly recent.

At many other times, the concentration of wealth, and therefore power, was identified as a problem and actively mitigated. For example, the founding fathers of the USA were quite anti corporate and actions like the Boston Tea Party were explicitly so.

Nah. The founding fathers were the richest colonists and George Washington was the richest of them all. It was some rich people opposing richer people overseas that they were descended from.

They didn’t want concentration of political power but they had the economic power. Interestingly the political power endangers them because it has the power to take away their economic power. That’s the real battle still going on today.

How does one disprove the other?

Because it wasn’t concentration of power they were concerned with. They were only concerned with concentration of power against them (political power against their right to profit).

It was a selfish play not a principled one. For example, slavery was written into the constitution. How the hell does that happen when all men (and no women) were supposedly equal? Slavery was enshrined as an economic and then a political right (2/3 vote).

Not all of them were for slavery but that was the end result of the document/of the competing forces at play. It institutionalized slavery in the new nation.

Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Declaration_of...

“According to those scholars who saw the root of Jefferson's thought in Locke's doctrine, Jefferson replaced "estate" with "the pursuit of happiness", although this does not mean that Jefferson meant the "pursuit of happiness" to refer primarily or exclusively to property.”

What has gradually happened is that personhood has been gradually extended to more and more entities (sometimes non human).

The colonists were ALL for maximizing economic power (pursuit of estate). They were ALL for limiting political power against economic power.

So this notion that colonists were against economic power is just wrong. Others may have held the notion but not as the colonists if you go by the Declaration of Independence and Constitution.

You have to go to other historical events to find evidence of that. French Revolution, Bolshevik Revolution.

And if that is the case, then you have people taking both sides of the argument over a long period of time.... Pro economic freedom vs limits to economic power.

It isn’t well recognized. It’s just a debate/fight people have been having for awhile.

It's this dynamic that some people want to treat each other as peers in some ways. This is because they are stronger as a group i.e. united we stand, individually we fall. However they to exclude others since if you include everyone, then there is no advantage (us vs them, the other).

Also the Boston Tea Party wasn’t anticorporate. It was against the tea tax to be paid to the government of England. “No taxation without representation”. It was anti government without representation.