I won’t buy ebooks anymore
dustri.org
dustri.org
Both novels were stolen and uploaded to ZLib within the first week of release: https://b-ok.cc/s/gavin%20chait
Here's how I - as author - experienced it:
- Within the first week someone buys the book via Amazon using a stolen credit card;
- Book is uploaded to ZLib;
- I complained to Amazon, raising both the issue of the stolen work and the stolen credit card;
- No response from Amazon, although they were quick to reverse the charge (I'm assuming as soon as the card is reported stolen);
- I complained to ZLib using their DMCA reporting tool;
- ZLib care about as much as Amazon, and my novels are still up.
I made it as easy as possible to read my work on my website and pay me direct. I released it as a DRM-free epub for use on any device or platform. You can even buy anonymously. Still doesn't matter. Folks like the OP won't support writers.
And, while this won't stop me writing, it makes it impossible to afford to write as often as I'd like. Two years after my second, I'm still trying to save up enough to afford to write my third.
Thanks OP.
"Folks like the OP" mentioned they use GOG, No Starch Press, etc, so they presumably don't mind paying as long as the experience is reasonable, DRM- and bullshit-free.
That's the thing with piracy: it's often more convenient than buying the thing. If the pirate book/game/music is unencumbered and easier to use on more devices, but the legal book/game/music is DRM-laden and requires proprietary devices or apps to use, which one would you choose?
I can lend or give a real book to whoever I want. Forever or temporarily. I can buy used books I find at discount used book stores.
And how could you even possibly compete with a book piracy site such as z-lib? You can get any book you want, for free, within seconds with virtually no fear of legal repercussions.
>I can lend or give a real book to whoever I want. Forever or temporarily.
Because the physical limitations on lending make it unfeasible to share it with absolutely everyone. The same goes for sales of used books. A 'used' digital book is just as good as a new one and would directly compete with the original seller.
I feel like this is intentionally ignoring the previous lifetime of experience which led to the OP's decision to attempt to pirate first.
After Google Play Music was announced to be shutting down a few years ago I've been trying to rebuild a (legal) lossless music collection. It's shocking how difficult it is to find some tracks and artists in a lossless format legally.
Some CDs I used to own years ago are now going for $250 used. Sites like HDTracks have apparently never heard of those bands, there's no Bandcamp site, the band site now redirects to facebook, all I can buy is 160kbps mp3.
Some CDs I used to own are available for $6.99, but it's the George Lucas style remastered content where they changed the lead-in and chorus and everything sounds wrong.
And that's not to mention the disks I still own that are copy protected. Sure I'll just pop this CD into my new car.... Oh wait it doesn't have a CD drive because it's 2020 and why would the manufacturer even consider including one? Is it okay to copy that CD? Why or why not?
So I still can't listen to some of my favorite bands, on whom I've spent $$$ on merchandise and concerts and their original CD releases, because I'm restricting myself to following the law. I cannot begrudge someone for choosing to pirate in the slightest.
People used to say the same about movie and music piracy. The problem was never piracy itself, but publishers offering an inferior product.
It's called a library.
Yeah, this has been an issue for me as well. If I have a real book that I bought, I'm perfectly allowed to lend it to a friend for some period of time. Public libraries have done this on a mass scale for eons.
Amazon's DRM on the other hand only lets you lend a book for 14 days. WTF? A real book isn't going to care how long you lend it for. Even many libraries let you extend book loans for months as long as no other patron has placed a hold request for it. The solution? Strip books of their DRM.
I'm not out there to cheat authors of money. I'm not going to take my ebook files and post them everywhere on the internet for free. I'm support giving authors money when I buy an eBook. But I want the same freedom that a paper book gives me. The concept of borrowing books, and even photocopying a section or two from books for personal use, shouldn't disappear in the digital age just because we've gone digital.
When institutions use Adobe's platform to lend out books, they utilize a waiting list for borrowers to que into. You can, in fact, just re-borrow it after 14 days and if nobody else is in line, you get access back immediately. So in reality, the Adobe bloatware solution for a title nobody else wants to read works the same as a physical format in that sense.
While this certainly used to be true, I think this is an arguable point. You posit two choices in the next sentence:
- the pirate book/game/music is unencumbered and easier to use on more devices
- the legal book/game/music is DRM-laden and requires proprietary devices or apps to use
But: if I buy a Kindle book, DRM or not, it is very easy for me to buy and it is very easy for me to use on any device that runs the Kindle app. Buy it one device and it's in the library on all of them; at worst I have to just tap to download it.
This is the way most companies have effectively competed with piracy: make it more convenient to get something legally. I've gone the whole "set up automated scripts to scan piraate sites and wait for specific videos of a certain quality to show up, download them via torrent, tag them with proper metadata, convert them and put them in my iTunes library" route. It was clever and cheap and just super, super fragile and finicky. Pirate sites go up and down, metadata is wrong, something somewhere in the chain breaks mysteriously. You know what was more convenient? Clicking "Season Pass" in iTunes. Boom. Done. Convenience is also the proposition of streaming video and music, in a very real sense: it's all technically DRM-encumbered, but your Spotify music is available on every device that supports Spotify with almost no effort on your part beyond logging the device in. If you have a strong enough philosophical objection to DRM that you find Spotify, Netflix, et. al, unpalatable, that's great, but while it's pretty easy to move DRM-free music files around it's not as easy as just streaming -- and DRM-free video files are still kind of a pain in the butt compared to streaming, or even any centralized library system like Amazon or iTunes. The same is basically true for books: I appreciate Calibre, but "It's so easy to manage your ebooks and reading devices through Calibre compared to using the native Amazon Kindle or Apple Books apps" is not a sentence most people are ever going to utter with a straight face.
I don't really need to read Finnish literature (although it would be nice to be more well versed in my own culture) but I can't recommend ebook readers to my family and friends because there's no way for them to enjoy any content on them. Which is a shame as they're dope.
DRM is still a step backwards. I like law-enforced laws ( :) ) because if they overstep I can ignore them. DRM/tech enforced laws often overstep, and it's harder to ignore them, and it's ultimately my business what I do with the stuff I bought. I can share paper books, and I can damn share digital books I bought if I so want. When did we let this nonsense of DRM happen?
That is actually a feature built into some ebook formats & proprietary software packages. Adobe's bloatware supports this feature, and it is actively utilized in academia, libraries, and archive.org.
Basically how it works is the software sets a limit on how many people can use the file at once. When more people want to use the file than that limit, they go onto a waiting list. In the case of libraries & archive.org, your access times out after a predefined amount of time (say 2 weeks), after which the app no longer allows you to use the file and you must get back in line to use it again. However, if you finish with it earlier, you can "return it" by volunteering to loose access sooner.
With individually "owned" copies it works basically the same way, only with only "one copy" in circulation between you and your friend who is borrowing it (while they're using it, you can't access it yourself), and access for the owner does not time-out.
They clearly say this is the first time they have paid. So they like the products they have from those companies because they are easy to not-pay-for.
Some people will pirate no matter what, but I think piracy is mostly a matter of convenience. And it's pretty convenient to just buy GOG games...
If there were a big, well-known DRM-free ebook store I'd be all over it. I use GOG, Bandcamp and other similar businesses whenever possible
Yes, he actually released his eBooks for free onto the piracy sites - with a twist: he included the entire first portion (quarter or third, cannot remember) of the book, gave info on where to buy the full copies (with zero recriminations - just the facts!), and then repeated those same early chapters to plump out a fully-sized eBook. He then flooded all the file sharing networks with this copy so as to make it difficult to find legitimately complete copies.
The entire first quarter or third was used to get readers heavily enough invested into his novel to _want_ to run out and buy the official copy -- he _justified_ the effort and expenditure to his readers, and they responded (mostly) positively by actually doing so!
Granted, there was a lot more to it than that, but this was the basics, and it pushed a lot of people towards not just his eBooks but also his physical sales. And there are probably many other strategies out there as well that utilizes the “piracy” platforms to your benefit instead of leaving you tilting impotently at windmills.
If you have an anecdote that goes against the narrative the fault is apparently still yours. The grand parent commenter made it as easily as possible to buy their book, which is what you’re “supposed” to do, yet that didn’t fix the problem. And somehow the recommended solution to poison the piracy well with basically content marketing for your book is somehow less “antagonistic” than what the gp commenter did.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/feb/01/paulo-coelho-r...
https://www.facebook.com/notes/maggie-stiefvater-really-its-...
Non-FB: https://www.thepassivevoice.com/a-story-about-piracy/
Author Maggie Stiefvater regarding her work The Raven King.
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/mar/16/lloyd-shepherd...
There is a reason real authors and musicians have agents (who are actually reachable unlike the YouTube service ...).
The actual profession is a full time job.
But the actual professional isn't 100% writing, just as being an independent software developer isn't 100% coding. Half of your time (or more!) may be spent on other aspects of the profession.
But there are still those of us who still (maybe naively at this point in history) believe that if you do things honestly, in good faith, and play by the rules, you should be able to make money too.
This isn't a knock toward cynicism or dishonesty. Rather a knock toward the fact that sales, and self-promotion are necessary if you want to make money (why are people going to buy your stuff if they don't know about it and its benefits to them aren't communicated clearly). Also realize that some people are bad actors (pirates) and you need to emotionally and financially protect yourself.
As someone who has pirated things in the past and ended up being pissed that it didn’t finish/wasn’t complete/etc. I don’t think that would send me screaming to spend money on it.
Quite the opposite, what this is proving is that providing an intro to your work to prove to the customer that they actually like it (like Amazon’s “try a sample”) is hugely valuable.
So what? You weren't going to buy it anyway, eh? What are you going to do, pirate harder?
It's entirely fair. You've got no business being pissed about something you got for free on a piracy site. Especially not when it actively points you where you can get the legitimate version.
I don't understand how your last line proves the opposite: if it's hugely valuable, that shows that this is a good idea, doesn't it?
I found the answer and posted in another comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23312970
The first part, or first book in the series, is published for free, then a reasonable (key being reasonable) price to buy the rest of the series or book
I like this model, especially for fiction works
The patreons just get that free content a bit in advance. And in pdf form.
It took him around a year to reach that number.
He writes utter shit, sub-mediocre literature.
Check other top writers on royalroad, they also make lots of money.
The reason books don't sell isn't because of piracy, is because there's TON of free content (not only books) or almost free content (netflix, let's say).
I'm someone who has read that story, at least the public parts of it, and I object slightly to your quality assessment... ;) I don't argue it's great literature or anything, more like the literary equivalent of popcorn - a fun and interesting story with not a lot of depth. So, entertainment, not life-changing prose...
And while I'm surprised he gets $13k a month, I'm not _very_ surprised. I'm one of his $1/month patrons, and I also give $1-$3 a month to a lot of other writers, YouTubers, and other creators. For another internet serial writer, see https://www.patreon.com/Wildbow
One of my criteria for supporting such creators is for them to make their creations public, even if some do it after a time delay. My rationale is that, this way, I both support the creators, and the creation of "culture", for a certain definition of that word, that other people would be able to enjoy for free. And while this might never replace traditional publishing and isn't suitable for everything, you've demonstrated that some people can certainly make a living this way.
https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/26294/he-who-fights-with-m...
It has a "Statistics" drop down. Expanding that out shows:
Total Views : 7,598,887 Average Views : 32,063
Guessing the average views is per chapter, which they seem to have 237 of at the moment.
Looks like they're fairly popular in their area, and have turned that into a good revenue stream.
---
Their "Scribble Hub" site is showing 760k views for the content there too:
https://www.scribblehub.com/series/41306/he-who-fights-with-...
A similar thing that surprised me is 'reaction channels' on youtube. It's often very small youtube channels with say, 10k subscribers, but they have a few hundred paying patreon followers and pull in 3-5k per month just doing tv show reactions.
P.S.: BTW, all this money is "donations", aren't they? So under a lot of legislations you wouldn't even have to pay taxes on that.
lol. try that in the USA. I dare you.
I'm not sure how applicable it is for books, because generally prices are more uniform for books than they are for software, but in the case of software I wonder if the ones who lose sales to piracy are the makers of more affordable software?
Imagine a world where piracy was effectively impossible for most people, and you want to do some occasional image editing. You look at Photoshop and it is way out of your budget. But you don't actually need most features of Photoshop. You find that Pixelmator Pro can do everything you want, and at $40 you can afford it and it is a good value. So you buy Pixelmator Pro.
In a world where piracy only takes a little time and effort you pirate Photoshop.
In both scenarios Adobe doesn't get any of your money so we can't say that pirating Photoshop in the second scenario cost Adobe a sale. But it did cost Pixelmator Team a sale.
In general, I suspect that the main effect of piracy is to change our allocation of spending within certain categories or groups of categories, without changing the total we spend in those categories.
But at $0 vs $0, Paint Shop Pro was a lot less appealing that it would have been at $99 vs $399 or whatever Photoshop used to cost.
Charles Piller, "How Piracy Opens Doors for Windows", *Los Angeles Times8, April 9, 2006
https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2006-apr-09-fi-micro...
If you do the right thing, you're out say $30 for a book. If you do the wrong thing, you get the book and still have your $30. Some people don't care about others, and that mindset continues. (its kinda a Tragedy of the commons where the "common" is the market place https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons).
DRM makes it worse, not only did you do the right thing and buy the book, now its not as useful as the copy someone "didn't pay for". So pushing people toward the free and better.
I used to generally believe this as well, but then services like Spotify, Apple Music, Youtube, etc. came along and put an end to the golden age of music piracy. Maybe these people wouldn't have bought the book at a full retail price, but there is very likely a price they would have paid to get the book in a convenient manner. Even the article basically admits as much. The author's complaint isn't the price, it is the convenience.
It might in some situations. With music for example, some bands have successfully encouraged people to buy their releases by including "rare" tracks that, if they were released previously, were done so on obscure titles that even collectors have a hard time finding. If everything an artist creates is easy to find online through piracy, there's no trove of "rare" material unless it's stuff that's never been released (like practice sessions or stuff that didn't make the cut for previous releases, much of this stuff is simply subpar and doesn't encourage purchases much).
Its hard though to carry that idea over to books though. What would be the extra material, unabridged versions? Not many books have abridged/unabridged versions to choose from.
I guess the closest parallel would be books people buy because they have to, not because they want to. By that I mean things like textbooks where, if they were available easily on pirated sites, everyone would just download. I kind of think publishers know this, and that's why so many now carry a one-time use only keycode to unlock online content. If you have to retake the class you can't access the online content again without repurchasing, even if the book itself has not changed.
If I'm being honest, if there were no piracy options I would be buying alot more books. Probably not as many as I pirate but still probably 500 dollars a year or so worth.
The catch is that it is true that if a book is unable to pirate I will probably not buy it. This is probably true for a lot of people. The reason is that there are other books available to pirate. That is the key distinction. If there were no piracy options I would be forced to buy some, but because there are piracy options I buy almost none and therefore you could say I wouldn't buy them anyway if they arent available to pirate.
The problem is that every retailer I can find that sells it sells a DRM'd version. Adobe Digital Editions isn't available for my operating system. There's no way for me to purchase a digital copy of your book that I can actually read.
If you sold a DRM-free epub on your website, I'd be reading Lament right now. I wouldn't have batted an eye at paying you $10 for a book Amazon sells for $5.
If I want to read your book on my Kindle, the only option is piracy. Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to pirate your book. I'll just end up purchasing an ebook from an author that has a DRM-free epub on their site.
Your books sound interesting and I hope you find commercial success as a writer. I just can't contribute to that success until your work's available in a format I can read.
It's not the only option, a Kindle can read Kindle books from Amazon that you've admitted sell for $5.
As far as I know, you can't use the ACSM files Amazon on it. I can't convert them to anything because Adobe hasn't released a version of Digital Editions for my operating system.
Technically, I could set up a Windows vm. But requiring a customer to use a particular OS to read a friggin' book is lunacy.
P.S. I am very aware that your operating system doesn't support Adobe Digital Editions; I just don't understand why your operating system needs to get involved at all.
This is what I run on my Kobo - it's quite nice! It has an RSS reader, Wallabag integration, cloud storage integration, a Lua plugin API... but it can't open DRM'd ebooks.
This is what's frustrating about DRM for me: it restricts the software you can use to only software from huge corporations. Want to make a small tweak to your reader? Nope, you're not allowed.
I only buy ebooks when I can find a DRM-free source for them, which pretty much means Tor/Baen/Humble/etc. I could buy DRM'd books and strip the DRM, but I'd rather not support the practice; I'm more likely to buy a physical book in that case.
It's in the kindle store... what am I missing?
> Thanks OP.
Is that the most appropriate thing you can say to someone who bought a book and (somewhat expectedly) got screwed by DRM? Maybe there's a reason they won't support writers. Maybe they'll eventually write a blog post about that!
Seems appropriate.
DRM is not the solution because the solution doesn't exist. The problem of the impoverished writer predates digital publishing, it's hard to make a decent living by writing anything interesting other than through indirect benefits. Sorry but writing something interesting is a luxury, writing something slutty is the only direct business prospect in writing.
Consider this: did Charles Darwin make a living through the royalties of "the origin of species"? No, he was bankrolled, the book was simply the fruits of his investment.
I clicked on the title for it, saw that you had some chapters laid out in HTML and figured, "Oh, I guess an HTML book is DRM-free". I clicked through and eventually had to login with Facebook to continue. That rankled, as I hate Facebook, so I checked out the rest of the site, thinking I missed the store page. I did not. I cannot pay you for a DRM-free version of your book on that site. This makes me feel like you're generating drama or something with your comment? I couldn't figure out an easy way to pay you real money for an ePub file.
I'm not going to go pirate your book, but the same result ended up happening: I'm not going to buy it either.
Remember, piracy is a customer service issue. So perhaps buying your book isn't as easy as you thought, or your marketing is faulty, and you're not reaching the intended audience as well as you hoped.
FWIW, I was quite surprised by your comment that "Folks like the OP won't support writers". The OP writes about _only_ being able to purchase a book in a way that involves submitting to very restrictive, platform-dependent DRM and not wanting to do it again. OP specifically contrasts this experience to buying from publishers who sell DRM-free ebooks as a counterpoint to the awful experience buying her/his book.
Publishers announce the books they'll be releasing a year in advance,and - seriously, this is a rabbit hole I knew nothing about when I started - people were offering bounties to pirate my book before it was available. I have a Google alert for my books so I can read reviews, so all this chatter was turning up. These are people who had no intention of paying for the work, no matter what, but also seemed to be going out of their way to make sure no-one would have to pay.
You can talk about DRM and clunky websites, but that comes across as post-hoc justification. The pirates seem simply to hate the idea that creators might earn anything, no matter how little.
Or maybe he just likes them because they're easier to pirate from? In a prior paragraph he admits that it was the first time he bought an ebook.
Presumably because nobody has taken the time to strip the DRM and post it to their "library" yet.
For what it's worth, Tim O'Reilly notes, in "Piracy is progressive taxation"[0], that:
>> Obscurity is a far greater threat to authors and creative artists than piracy.
[0]: https://www.oreilly.com/content/piracy-is-progressive-taxati...
The real number that would help you is finding out how many unique user downloads there were of your book and asking yourself if your marketing was strong enough to get that number of sales naturally? Or worse, is it that no one is downloading your book even with it being free?
I am biased since I write free content and believe in getting sponsored by supporters, but being the distributor of my free content and able to view download statistics, I can see that marketing is my biggest problem and no one wants to consume even my free content
OP bought the book?
And then pointed to a piracy site and said he'd never pay for a book again.
On the other hand, you can get Thinking, Fast and Slow for free: https://b-ok.cc/book/1214612/224dc8?dsource=mostpopular
Or Hackers and Painters, ANSI Common LISP, and On LISP.
It is surprising that as a writer you engage in this misleading usage of the English language. People copying files without your consent may be financially inconvenient for you, in bad taste, even illegal in some jurisdictions, and definitely an ass move. But it is not stealing. You can firmly condemn this behavior without using metaphors.
Nevertheless historical usage includes, "stealing someone's idea", etc. which is as least an applicable sense.
Meanings change over time.
One can argue all they want about whether IP laws should exist, but as it stands right now (in re. to language and the law) it’s stealing.
The price of an ebook has so far been the same as the price of a physical book. Considering the resale value of a book is on average about 50% of the original price, the real price of an ebook for the user with this limitation should be ~50% less than the cost of the paper book. (Not taking into account shipping costs, etc...)
This became real to me when my aunt died. She had purchased thousands of dollars worth of ebooks. Had she purchased physical books, those books would have been donated or resold. At a loss to the publisher, but a gain to the original purchaser and secondary purchaser. (or estate in this case).
Unless I as the purchaser am at least partially compensated for this loss of value by a price decrease, I cannot buy ebooks with a resale limitation.
I had a library with thousands (and thousands) of books. When I moved I decided to get rid of many of them, because decluttering. Long story short - by the time you've allowed for post/carriage, listing time, packaging, and so on, you're more likely to be left with 5-10% of the nominal cover price - and that only after endless hours of work.
I donated most of mine, and I still got complaints from the local recycling facility that they were worthless because they were "too obscure" (i.e. pop science, math, stats, and such.)
Pulling up a few random books for example https://www.amazon.com/Blindsight-Peter-Watts/dp/0765319640/...
I see I can buy it new for about $11 although I wouldn't be surprised to pay $15 in a physical store. Selling it could get me about 10 but I would have to pay about a buck to amazon and around 3 to ship it for a net of 6.
This is 40% - 55% of original value.
Perhaps more importantly lending or giving them in person arguably gives them the same $10 worth of value. Shipping it to someone produces $10 worth of value for 3.
A book that is shared 3 times has produced $30 worth of value. A book that is shared 10 times has produced $100 worth.
An ebook that you might not be able to read in 10 years is SUBSTANTIALLY less valuable than the physical book.
Adding this value proposition back in and removing DRM that strip actual ownership both laudable goals in themselves are entirely at odds. Artificial scarcity is broken by design and unfixable.
I can't expect anyone to want an old manual for LISP programming so now I'm holding onto my old books because it's not worth dragging them to the used bookstore. And, every so often, I will go back and look at them. There was a discussion on HN involving assembly language and machine architecture, it caused me to pull out my old book on CDC 6600 assembler.
In another 10 years I'll forget this and try to sell my used books again.
I get what I want while supporting a local bookstore and the author.
But that of course is very subjective.
As an example, The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy: Primary Phase. The CD version is £20 from Amazon, whereas on Amazon Audible it's at most £8. (I'm not counting the £18 listed price on Audible, as one can simply 'subscribe' for £8, buy the audiobook with the token, then immediately unsubscribe. I put 'at most' because their per-book price is lower with a high-volume subscription.)
In this case, I'm ok with the DRM'ed non-physical version, as it's so much cheaper. It's true I can't easily gift the audiobooks or leave them in my will. It's also true that Amazon has the power to lock me out of my library, and if Audible disappears, I probably lose my library.
The product you're buying is really: rental of unknown duration. And unless that's really substantially cheaper than actually buying it on disc, it's a terrible deal.
It displayed everywhere nicely. I never purchased books from other locations so I got no opinion on FNAC and the likes, but I never had an issue on Amazon books.
I do not believe that is universally true.
(FWIW... I found a lot of SciFi authors request no DRM, as it supports their personal beliefs and values, but that's a personal observation rather than objective survey of the field)
1: https://www.amazon.com/John-Scalzi-ebook/dp/B000SEIK2S If you unroll/expand description you'll see the quote
But it'd be real nice to be able to purchase DRM free ebooks, a la GOG for games.
Ebooks don't work this way. I borrow them from a library. You're right, once an ebook is read it's just bits. They don't have the same value as hard copy books for resale, gifting, donation, or leaving out on the coffee table. Even obsolete textbooks have value, my monitor sits a few inches higher on top of a couple. Can't do that with ebooks.
When I go to buy a book, the ebook price seems to be 10-25% lower than hardcover. It could just be my experience, but this has been the case for dozens of books. I look at this difference as the lack-of-salability discount.
I won't buy print books anymore, because they are too cumbersome vs digital. The 20% discount vs print, or 30% increase over net value of print, by your calculation, is worth the value I receive.
I exaggerate, because there are some print books I buy, specifically for the print format, because for those books so much of the value is in the packaging and physical form factor. The Apple hardware book, the Nasa Graphics Standards book, the recent Prince of Persia book, etc. For a couple, I buy both print and ebook because both formats have their own value; for the same book sometimes it's good to be able to page flip and sometimes it's good to be able to search. Brendan Gregg's BPF book is a recent one that comes to mind.
But for the most part (95%+), I buy only digital, and I am happy to pay "more" than the net print value.
I'm a bit morbid, given that I statistically have decades of reading ahead of me, but I always dreamed of transferring the collection to my bookworm niece. I only learned of this Amazon policy recently and it was crushing!
I think within 5-10 years digital media like ebooks, games, movies etc will transition to being represented by ERC-721 tokens which brings with it the benefits of physical media (permanent ownership, sharability, etc) while also being easy to store, transport, read digital items. The main benefit is that you can buy your ebook/game/movie in one store/ecosystem and even if that system goes out of business your purchase will still be valid at other stores and platforms. Like physical books, these items can be re-sold and given to anyone you like (granted you won't have access to the book anymore.)
2. I remember a substantial issue with Etherium wherein someone was able to steal a large amount of currency from other users in 2016. What are the risks of an attacker say stealing a large number of tokens intended to be sold to users from distributor or even the ability to create them? In a decentralized world how do you invalidate them? If you can invalidate them doesn't that mean any seller can take back anything?
This can happen now of course they can steal a copy of your pre production movie but potential to monetize is garbage and effect on your legitimate value proposition may be largely unchanged. In this brave new world their stolen tokens may actually have a legitimate market. Steal 1 million tokens sell all 5 days after release as already read for 10% less than going rate before owner bans tokens from legitimate market.
3. What about the case in which someone breaks into your computer or infects it with malware and effectively loots all your books and music and sells it on craigslist/amazon/facebook. How do you invalidate those purchases without a secondary authority. If you can haven't you recreated central distribution with more steps?
In real life, this would be the equivalent of getting one bad meal at a restaurant chain in a city you’ve never been to before, so you stop eating at that chain anywhere else, despite positive experiences in the past.
The headline says that he won’t ever buy ebooks, then lists good places to buy ebooks. I guess he is exaggerating for effect?
But it’s true, nobody should accept DRM. Here is the statement of the publisher who sells my gnuplot book:
“We believe that when you buy a book, it belongs to you. That’s why we use no ‘digital rights management’ or anything else that interferes with your rights. You can make as many personal backups as you want, and use the book on any number of your own devices. If you lose your files, you can just download them again, forever.”
One would hope the author is exaggerating but I have seen a number of people in my life be this irrational. I’m inclined to take the title as is given any lack of evidence to the contrary.
True, but then the author also says "So I bought it. For the first time in my life, I bought an ebook".
So I can't tell what is going on.
It may be hyperbolic, but I basically feel the same way, because I had more or less the same thing happen: I saw a book I wanted to buy, it said EPUB; there was absolutely no indication that there was DRM, that I'd be required to install Adobe software, or anything. I bought the book, and after paying for it, was told about all this.
I was so furious I emailed them immediately and demanded my money back (which they complied with). But it certainly put me off buying e-books from random websites -- I haven't even thought about doing it since.
I'm all for finding ways of letting authors survive, or better yet thrive. But the current market seems to cater to the publishers, not the authors (cf: movie industry, music industry) so I don't even feel all that bad about that.
To stay in the allegory: if it was common practice and somehow widely acceptable for restaurants to use boatloads of laxatives during food preparation, but they only told you so after you asked to see the manager, would you judge the people who just outright refused to eat out any longer? The stress of finding a laxative free restaurant would simply outweigh the benefit from eating out.
There are books I'd buy today if they weren't published by publishers which only distribute with DRM. If it isn't desirable enough in that case to justify buying a dead tree version, I just pass entirely.
When pirating books, I download it, put it on my ereader, and read it.
When actually purchasing books, I need to install Adobes proprietary DRM-program, open the book in there, unlock it with my account, then use the Adobe program to transfer it to my tablet.
Not a huge hassle, but pirating just works, and offers an experience that's infinitely more pleasant.
(That's if you're willing to hold your nose about having DRM at all, the remote deleting of books, Amazon's near-monopoly and so on - personally I don't buy any ebooks I'm not willing to lose)
I do believe my reader has the same ease-of-use if I purchase books from the company selling it. Might be only if buying things using the reader itself, not sure.
Libgen has everything and it's so much easier than dealing with online retailers and Adobe's bullshit. If you know stores that sell DRM-free ebooks I'd be very interested.
I have been a Libgen user and contributor for many years now, but I find myself simply buying more and more physical books, since so much of what I want to read is not available on Libgen or anywhere else digitally.
Tor went DRM-free many years ago. I know their catalog is on Amazon.
There's a reason why companies put customers through all this garbage and the reason is because I can easily pirate these books. So the story isn't as one sided as this guy makes it out to be. It's a contentious issue between customer rights of ownership and piracy.
There's a reason why customers pirate and the reason is because companies put customers through all this garbage.
So really it's like if someone usually takes food off the hot plate at a restaurant to steal it, and the one time they sit down and pay it's a shitty experience so they decide they're going to keep stealing lol.
Same happened with music (Sony had rootkit bundled in their CDs), DVDs (the FBI warning screen), games and so on. You get punished if you try to be a good behaving customer.
I failed to do this after getting food poisoning once, thinking it was just bad luck/one bad restaurant in the chain, and I soon regretted it.
I think the author mentions it is the first time he buys an ebook.
Also if you think the problem is systemic ("it seems that all the restaurants in this chain behaves this specific way I dislike") then you might as well move on and don't try your chance a second time.
well, supposedly a chain will sell the same dishes everywhere.
If you don't like the menu of a certain chain, what's the point in trying at another location?
It's gonna be the same menu.
------
Coming back to the article: my advice would be to download that illegally. If in order to use your legally purchased content you have to go through illegal means (and become a pirate anyway) you might as well save those seven euros.
Obligatory XKCD: https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/steal_this_comic.png
I've been tearing through material lately, all through the library app (Libby, which I think is a rebrand of Overdrive), and it's still magic to me that I'm getting all of it for free. Sure, it comes with the normal library restrictions (popular stuff has long hold waits, sometimes tough to find a specific book vs. any book, etc.) but the sheer amount of books available that spark my interest is really cool.
I fell out of the habit of reading actual books for awhile, and diving back in has been like reconnecting with a long lost friend.
it's not free. You've funded the library (who has to volume license the book) with your taxes.
There's a wide gap between "free" and "you've already paid for it, may as well consume it". I have to mention this because people in non-USA countries always talk about "free" healthcare, which isn't.
Yes. People in other countries get that healthcare isn’t actually free. Just that they don’t have to fork out any money at the moment they need it.
I promise you, we’re aware that we pay a lot of taxes and those taxes fund things we go on to call free.
I have/had some 20 books on the market, all of them also as ebooks (PDF) and not a single one of them is DRM'ed. I refuse to sell ebooks on Amazon, because their ebook format is not open. This year I will publish my first EPUB book. Also without DRM.
However, most authors just don't know and/or don't care. Either because they do not know anything about DRM or because they only care about sales, and with some publishers DRM is not an opt-in. Unfortunately!
So, yes, I understand the frustration expressed in the article! Look closely before you buy any ebooks!
DRM and other protection instruments are widespread in digital media and I don't think a good answer to this problem has been found yet, which addresses ease of access & use and also adequate compensation to creators.
We still want an equivalent to physical ownership of media but that's applying old thinking to a modern technology, so frustration is understandable. Truly owning digital media is increasingly rare concept. Being able to sharing individual media items more so. Typically we merely rent temporary access through a defined ecosystem. I don't know what the answer is, beyond acknowledging the limitations of both physical and digital media and not expecting the best of both worlds to be possible.
We all know that it doesn't have to be that way.
> DRM and other protection instruments are widespread in digital media and I don't think a good answer to this problem has been found yet
DRM is the easiest of problems to solve: just remove it.
I think within 5-10 years digital media like ebooks, games, movies etc will transition to being represented by ERC-721 tokens which brings with it the benefits of physical media (permanent ownership, sharability, etc) while also being easy to store, transport, read digital items. The main benefit is that you can buy your ebook/game/movie in one store/ecosystem and even if that system goes out of business your purchase will still be valid at other stores and platforms. You own the item itself and are not renting it from a certain store.
These days, I can't be arsed to worry about any of that. I just buy what I want from where-ever (Google, Amazon, etc.). Why? Convenience of course.
Really, how many of these books am I ever going to read again? Tech books in the old days (1990's) would last you a few years at least (my copy of TCP/IP networking from O'Reilly was well-used) but these days? Everything is changing so fast.
So I just buy them, enjoy them, and don't worry about having access to them in the future. A few true classics I have purchased multiple hard copies of over the years anyway. If I end up purchasing electronic something for a 2nd time, I might make more effort to ensure continued access.
I also avoid Google Play Books. E-books are just one of too many things Google does. IMO Google won't think twice before switching off the service.
I do buy some Kindle titles though. At least it works, books are linked to my Amazon account, and Kindle is core business for Amazon. I bet it will stay around longer.
Thanks for pointing me to it!
On the whole I've been far more satisfied with Kobo than Amazon, though if the DRM situation ever becomes more onerous I'll stop buying from them. The devices themselves are excellent and pretty easy to tinker with.
There is hope on this front, however. People need to understand this. The e-book manufacturers implement DRM at the behest of the publishers. Publishers can also request that the books they sell not be DRM-encumbered. You'll see that listed on the product page. See below:
https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebook/lightspeed-magazine-issue-7...
> Download options: EPUB 2 (DRM-Free)
Or you may see a note like this on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00ME0TBFE/ref=dbs_a_def_r...
> At the Publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management Software (DRM) applied.
It's not easy to find books that are DRM-free, but this does show that pressuring the publisher works. I think this is the route to go if we want to make DRM-free books the norm. Pressure the publisher, not the platform.
There is a workaround to download the book in an older format that can be cracked, but when you do so you don't get the newer features that are present only in KFX files.
If cracking DRM sounds like a fun project, check out the thread here:
I can't really think of any "newer features" I would need in the books I'm converting, anyway. 95% of the books I buy are works of narrative fiction or nonfiction, and I buy them on Amazon for the purposes of converting to an EPUB and reading them on my Kobo eReader.
The other changes only in KFX include hyphenation, ligatures, kerning, and pop-up footnotes. Amazon's Bookerly font is also exclusive to KFX and it's quite a nice font IMHO.
BTT, there are a lot of books where you aren't forced into DRM. DRM creates real world issues for customers, as the shut down of DRM servers in the past showed.
If you put DRM on your book, I won't buy it. It's as simple as that. Which doesn't mean I illegally download it from "somewhere on the interwebz". I simply won't read it at all.
Occasionally I’ll try to get something from the library but it has a seven week waiting time on it. Forget it. I buy that then also.
Sometimes I want to remove the DRM from something, I buy a fair amount of ebooks I should be allowed to make this call.
In the past I’ve used caliber to do this.
Unfortunately the DeDRM plugin is broken on Catalina. As far as I can tell you have to boot macOS into safe mode and disable SIP to get it working.
The eBook market kinda sucks. Not every book is available, for example a friend and I wanted to read Inca Gold as sort of a joke together. He bought the book used in hardcover, this particular novel is not available in the Kindle Store. I clicked the notify publisher they should publish this as an ebook link then I found a copy floating around on the web.
The other thing is pricing. eBooks cost much more than regular books and I can not understand why except because it is convenient. Frankly the device is convenient. Not a lot about the systems that support ebooks feels convenient.
Even supporting services like Goodreads feel clunky and stale at this point.
I largely blame Amazon for half hearted support of kindle. Their flagship device has a micro usb on it.
Thankfully a lot of sellers are selling books without DRM. I just bought a number of political books from Haymarket and Verso and that was the case.
A poor experience with what sounds like a poor distributor, and, perhaps by extension, a poor and limiting DRM, should not be considered representative for an otherwise neat format (.epub).
If sales are done right, the experience is seamless, as the author himself finds to be the case with other distributors.
Doesn't sound like the author is gonna stop reading ebooks, just that he's gonna pirate them (he mentions how easy it is to get a DRM-free book on Z Library).
I also feel the frustration though. I won't buy e-books unless it either has no DRM or if I know I can strip it easily afterwards.
See Charles Stross: https://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2009/03/reminde...
On the contrary, I spend quite some money on Manning Publications and Pragprog to buy some PDFs and read through my PDF viewer and I'm pretty happy about it.
I know it's not a fair comparison at all, since I didn't buy books from O'Reilly and Packt. But the point is just to illustrate DRM + apps really destroy the experience.
Agree or not with the use of DRM, I object to buttons that say "Buy Now" instead of "Lease Now" on web-sites.
But Piracy killed it, so now its subscription service, or available on kindle (I don't use). Some authors seem to have deals to give away their books and sell them at the same time: e.g.: https://www.tidyverse.org/learn/
I buy some DRM free books from Manning. They put a footer on each page, saying, licensed to: xxxxxxx@yyyyy.com to discourage me from sharing. It doesn't bother me.
Manning also seems to be going a sort of subscription route too. They have "live book" where you buy access to parts of books you want with tokens. Its kinda interesting how they're trying to do micropayments.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2368560
If ebook sales where working well, I suspect they wouldn't have gotten rid of them.
I've bought into a few ebook kickstarters, and the books came in open files visibly watermarked with my KS email address. That seems a reasonable approach.
For KS, from the author's perspective this is ultra-high-risk. Their book isn't even on store shelves yet, and yet they're selling DRM-unencumbered copies. Meanwhile if I want to buy a 60-year-old book that's obviously available on every pirate site, the seller will still foist DRM onto me.
So I think we're getting there. There are new businesses working with DRM-free ebooks, since the encumbered ones are basically pirated instantly anyways.
I prefer no DRM but I don't complain about the hassle of removing it- I'm too busy reading.
I realize this may not be the experience or purchase model for everyone, but for a large segment of the reading public, it "just works."
I am now running Windows 10 + WSL and I begrudgingly accept if I want to support the authors while reading on an eReader I need to accept the DRM'd ebooks. I am getting too old to struggle with being a zealot. There are better things to spend my time on.
You can download the DeDRM tools from https://apprenticealf.wordpress.com/ linking to github, no crazy sites involved.
Ps.: Funnily enough, my device is actually called a Not-eReader. It's lovely because it doubles as an emergency HDMI monitor.
Nobody does that, of course.
It's not unreasonable that people should be compensated for work that they've spent months or years of their life working on.
Zealotry is great when you've got ample time on your hands, but some folks have work to get done and bills to pay, i.e. the authors who's books OP is stealing...
I agree that the article was poorly written. But you seem to be implying here that people involved with the FSF, as a whole, tend to be angry. I’m not at all sure that that’s true.
> It's not unreasonable that people should be compensated for work that they've spent months or years of their life working on.
Sure, agreed. And downloading unauthorized copies of ebooks from shady web sites, like the one mentioned in the article, isn’t a fair solution. But, for example, buying only ebooks without DRM from legitimate sources, and otherwise buying paper books, is one possible fair solution without DRM where writers and publishers do get paid.
I didn't find an online shop meeting these criteria:
* really big catalogue (of the size of Fnac.com, etc.)
* EPUB with no DRM
I also sent an email to the (French) publisher/editor of the book to narrate the awful user-experience. Maybe you can do the same ;) If enough readers contact the publishers to say they won't buy ebook anymore with such a poor user experience, it might help.
Learn polish ;)) there is no DRM on polish ebook sites. You just pay and get links to PDF/EPUB/MOBI formats of ebook. There is only watermark protection, example site: https://virtualo.pl/ebook/heban-i150038/ but it is similar in all publishing houses.
In their entire website, they refer to these things as "E-Books", but it is anything but. It's a proprietary viewer. There is a small "i" icon next to them in the listings, which I presume they must have added recently that now states these things aren't actually E-Books (in fine print). Clever huh?
Either way, I don't understand the point of DRM. People can still make copies if they're determined to, and studies have shown that giving away ebooks actually increases sales. If these sort of publishers go bankrupt, no one will shed a tear. Because, you know, don't fuck your customer maybe?
I think authors should get paid, and I should have free use over the artifact.
So I wired together some machinery to take a downloaded Kindle file, turn it into a PDF (using the underlying Calibre tooling), and send that to my Remarkable tablet.
I should make it available, think it would be useful to others (under terms that the PDFs are for personal use only- authors need to get paid).
I think unlike the author though, I was not attempting to remove the DRM; the process of getting to read the book with DRM was many steps (downloading adobe crap, etc) and the endresult was something with DRM that could be opened in another Adobe program but no-where else.
The most annoying part is books 'disappearing' or becoming unreadable like what happens on Amazon; like there are books that I bought which are limited to n devices (all mine and my account!) or they just suddenly cannot be read anymore (and cannot be downloaded again). What else can I do then just download illegally?
This works -- especially -- in a country where you have to wait ages for a book to arrive by post, not to mention silly countries like mine, where you have to pay tax on books.
Having said that, I do agree with the shitty ergonomics and usability of DRMed content. If someone went out of their way to pay for a book or a movie, they aren't the kind of people to go and pirate that - so don't punish them.
I am also think I am sensitive to the "renters economy" issue. I think I preferred owning them, but I'm not sure why. I've had to dispose of books in various ways in the past for running out of space etc. And I have had books lost or stolen, or borrowed and never returned, so many time. Now I can actually read the books I buy regardless of the quality of my vision. I don't have to worry about running out of space or carrying huge heavy boxes. So I don't know if I really don't like the new way or if I'm just resistant to change.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/help/customer/display.html?nodeId=...
E-book publishers don't see the value in lending. Look at how they are clamping down on the number of copies available to libraries. To them, every loaned book is a lost sale.
I was so disheartened to see DRM being pushed with an open standard. It’s the whole EME thing again.
This is disingenuous and doesn't bring much food for thoughts at the table.
Is the outrage porn card being played to garner attention for something else ?
When you pet a snake and get bitten, you don't pet snakes anymore. But since you already were afraid of snakes (who isn't), you don't have to test petting it to find out it bites.
So the author doesn't have the eBook instinct. e-book. In other words: "electrified book", "less of a book", "not a real book".
Then, he's not using standard tested consumer channels like Amazon Kindle etc, so then he's on his own. He doesn't need to brag about having to set up a VM and going to darknet to hire a Korean hacker gang and buying a DM cracking botnet to crack DRM. He was just being cheap.
I think selling books for 25 cents etc. can result in massive sales. There is a middle-ground between selling overpriced editions with small changes in between, and outright piracy. Digital formats allow large-scale distribution, so pricing copies for under a dollar makes piracy not that attractive, when following the law and your conscience comes so cheap.
But somehow publishers want it all - the large scale distribution possibility of the digital medium, and the margins of the print medium.
Creating value and collecting a portion of the value created are completely different skill sets. You can't put them together by just saying it MUST BE SO. That's the "central committee" approach and history has shown that while it appears attractive, it will more likely destroy it all.
all i can say in a short comment on my reasoning is: 1. works of art done for love or the need to share are peices of content probably worth spending very valuable time on 2. works of art created for money are inevitably optimising for wasting your life - films and books are dragged out to series that largely go no where, vacuous music and media is created in the hope of getting you to spend money, not expanding your mind and adding to the value of society 3. historically this doesn't really seem to have been an issue. if you are good you can make money out of commissions and guest appearances or signed copies etc. this is not perfect, but it certainly makes it more likely money will go to the creator rather than a distributor. - note also the current system is far from perfect and many creators suffer from its failures today 4. nothing is done in isolation: inevitably you created your thing based on what you learned from others and opportunities society gave you.. but most importantly the value comes from other people need, NOT your creation - ability to write code is not valuable, removing someones problem is. 5. controlling and restricting the ability for other to create as they are not creating how some right holder wants seems drastically counter productive and greatly slows progress and de-motivates people who could be adding to society. 6. if we got better about respecting what others had contributed to our ideas (as we felt less need to hoard them) then overall i think people would be worried less when its someone else take on their idea that "makes it big". if thre was less ot be gained financially, it would remove incentives for deceit.
i suppose in summary, i think that you should create out of love and because you think that thing needs creating. if all "for profit" inventions and art were to vanish from existence, i don't actually think we would be missing much. there is no race we are trying to win with progress and there is no final state to get to.
For the books I write I now only sell eBooks but under a Creative Commons Share and Share Alike license and I encourage people to share with friends. Writing books is a lot of work and I want them to be widely available. Then, you may ask, why not just put PDFs in the public domain? The answer is that I do enjoy getting some revenue from writing, so it is a compromise.
https://littlefreelibrary.org/
Previous HN discussion:
If that wasn't true, dead-tree books would be as rare as Compact Discs.
Not heard of a 50 year old epub or pdf yet, wonder if it will ever happen ;)
(1) You don't actually buy them, you lease them.
(2) For example; Kindle books can only be loaned for 14 days. I guess if you vacationing on the beach, you could probably read it that quickly. Most people only have some weekend or evening time.
It was repeatedly shown for the last 20+ years that DRM can not work, is detrimental for sales, author popularity and income.
Late Jim Baen of baen.com realized that in 1999 and since then sold DRM-free multiformat books with usually first 1/3 to 1/2 of the text available free. And it works just fine since then.
How is this not bait-and-switch fraud? OP should file a complaint with their local business regulator.
The new ones - paper white etc pull the new format off the cloud which is currently unbroken.
I definitely want a backup of all that stuff
What's nice is that I'm able to get access to libraries that are a pretty far drive. I can borrow those books without having to drive to one of their libraries.
1. install DeDRM in Calibre[0]
2. Strip DRM from epub
[0] https://github.com/apprenticeharper/DeDRM_tools/releases
I prefer not contributing to deforestation & pollution via paper. This leaves me with specific niche or historical books to buy in paper form.
Either I buy it without DRM, or I don't buy it.
Almost there with spyware, too. Creative Cloud is next on my list to replace.
I’d rather just research which sites sells DRM-free (or with easily removed DRM, like Amazon) and stick to those.
"Affording the hassle of a bookshelf" is a thing nowadays, but I chose to indulge in that kind of luxury.
Learn to accept DRM, or go without. Anything else is snatching food from the mouths of the children of authors, artists, and musicians.
ebooks.com, kobo.com and shashwords.com are good for this, as are Verso.
ebook-converter-program
[1] Especially within technical fields. Also Norwegian ebooks :D
Kobe has some DRM free books, but not a lot of authors publish there.
I'd really like to buy DRM free books. I'd even pay twice as much for them. I started going down the eBook route when I was moving and travelling very minimally, and now I rarely read paper books. I prefer the ebook format, but wish there was a Bandcamp for eBooks.
I do have numerous shelves in my home devoted to Laserdiscs, vinyl, CD's, tapes, and of course many many books. But I don't have any room for media which I don't physically own, nor media which can be taken away as easily as I can download it.
I like this because I make sure to support things I enjoy, rather than buying something and finding out it was not as good as the reviews made it out to be. It is a product of my entitlement, sure, but with the wealth of free content available, I can't justify spending money up front anymore.