Ask HN: The most impressive non-academic achievement? | Hacker News Reader

Ask HN: The most impressive non-academic achievement?

44 pointsneilshevlin56 comments

It hit me when filling out an application form that most of my achievements have been largely academic.

Other than that I've spent most of my time exercising, socialising and volunteering. Nothing outstanding. I haven't done any expeditions, climbed high mountains or led a sports team to victory.

I wondered what some of the most impressive things you had seen in young people were.

Obviously you will have outliers who have started companies at 16 and sold them for a few hundred thousand etc.

But what are the things that you've heard of, or in fact done yourself that you've thought "Yeah wow, thats bloody impressive!"

Or perhaps I'm looking at this question the wrong way?

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Using my computer.

I had to give up my degree in CompSci because I was becoming quadriplegic beginning in the early 2000's, And was unable to type. I then spent a decade working out how to become a computer scientist/robotic/terrible drone flyer. If that does not sound difficult, imagine coming home from work and finding out every single light switch, but, lever and key from your keyboard been removed. What do you do? I asked, you are also in pain.

Also, at the time there was no academic structure available to help, so I had to do it myself.

(I find this comment incredibly hard to write because I am a northern man from the UK and emotion is not something we do easily, this feels like boasting to me even though it answers your question. I am writing it Everybody else who might be struggling with some insurmountable problem with a very simple point: Do. Not. Give. Up.

Not ever, and you will either achieve your goal or die trying. You will almost certainly surprise yourself though.)

As another northern man from the UK, you're an absolute fucking beast, mate. :)

You will understand why your comment makes me feel deeply uncomfortable and incredibly proudTo hear that someone of my peers.

My partner says (and I think she is totally right) that I have major trouble when I have more than one emotion at the same time!

You are totally awesome dude !! That is a great accomplishment.

Respect!

Feels weird to say thank you, but the kind words make me feel better. thank you.

When you are sixty you will not look back at your achievements at fifteen or twenty with most pride unless you have completely squandered any gifts and opportunities you might have. You don’t need to compete against anyone else if you don’t want to. They’re the star of their show in their heads as you are of yours.

If you really want to do something impressive go for it. Don’t collect a set of prestigious certificates without actually achieving anything. Do something that actually makes a difference. The pseudonymous author of Mother of Learning[1] spent nine years writing a serial novel. If that’s all they’ve done with their life it’s a more impressive achievement than getting four prestige degrees and failing as a VC and CEO.

You do what you want with your life. No one else is ever going to know what you wanted to achieve unless you tell them. They won’t know what you actually achieved unless you tell them either.

[1] https://www.royalroad.com/fiction/21220/mother-of-learning

Aged 21, I became the first person in the world to watch more than 60 hours of films without falling asleep (under controlled conditions), for which I (and two friends) was awarded a Guinness World Record.

Almost two decades later, that’s the story most people want to hear. In fact, only a few weeks ago I was interviewed about it on Dublin radio (which then got a write-up in the Irish Sun).

I’m also especially proud of my completing the Monopoly Pub Crawl of London in order for my 30th birthday. But since few people have attempted it, and most who do it, do it out of order and thus reduce the time required by a third, it rarely sounds as challenging or impressive as I found it.

People also seem slightly interested that I graduated top of my university course while also winning the student award for “most lectures attended while drunk”, co-hosted my own TV program, have written 4 books across 4 genres (history, architecture, crime fiction, and business), and helped my daughter visit 19 countries before her first birthday.

First, I love this comment. <3

Second, what films did you watch for the 60 hours?

We started with Breakfast at Tiffany’s, and it was all downhill from there!

One film blurred into the next; time stood still; I believe the final movie was Fight Club although our choices were cut back when the VHS Player overheated about 55 hours in.

> helped my daughter visit 19 countries before her first birthday

Not to belittle any of these achievements, but this one seems like the odd one out, since it's hard to imagine that she would remember anything about these trips at that age. (Personally, my earliest recountable memories are around age 5.)

The key here is: know your audience. What's impressive to a SV tech entrepreneur is often incomprehensible, absurd, or simply farcical to someone like a PhD in Classical Philology, or a tradesman that owns his own small business. And vice versa - achievement doesn't have a universal definition. This becomes really obvious when you compare different countries, say, the U.S. and France, for example.

Figure out how your audience defines achievement and work backwards from there.

> Or perhaps I'm looking at this question the wrong way?

Yes. Achievement is much messier than we like to present it. HN is often not a good place to observe or discuss achievement before there are very polarized views that don't consider the impact of the achievement, or rail against an achievement because of the costs.

An example might be Elon Musk, but he could be substituted for many other people. It doesn't really matter because the pattern is similar. These individuals have outsized achievements that their core audience lauds. These achievements have costs, ranging from material impacts through to reputation. On the path to that achievement there are decision points with costs which only some people can bear.

The point I want to get to, is that individual achievements aren't the only kind and most people start to rethink their original ideas of achievement. As you get older, you have more joint achievements, or you get more satisfaction from helping others achieve big things.

So, as others have stated, understand your audience and work towards achievements for them. Just remember that your are more likely to become an expert in the area and be part of many joint achievements and help others break through. If you fall into the trap of individual achievement over all else, then you won't be able to recognize these things.

Is this a question on the application and you're not sure how to answer it?

Achievements are personal. "Achievement," just like "Success," is relative. I think the question is meant to draw out a personal story about overcoming obstacles to reach some goal. It doesn't need to be some world record or an Olympic medal.

Examples:

- Completing a half-marathon might be a major achievement for someone who's had life-long health and weight challenges, but not for a college athlete.

- Earning a college degree is a major achievement for an immigrant whose family came from a rural area of a developing country where few people completed school.

- For a high school student growing up in poverty, just earning enough through a small business to help parents pay the rent is a big achievement, without ever making millions or getting acquired.

- And so on...

It may just so happen that your achievement is uncommon, such as winning an ultra-marathon or selling a company at the age of 16, but I don't think that's what the application is looking for.

All my real-life achievements were just shit that happened.

Honestly, my most grounding achievement, one that feels more real than anything else I've done, is that I got hit by a hurricane and, lacking resources and available contractors, built a new roof myself. Whatever else I do or fail to do, this roof is a good roof.

> done any expeditions, climbed high mountains

The thing is, doing those things at 16 is kind of set up for the purpose of filling in those forms. The UK's "Duke Of Edinburgh Award" scheme pretty much is designed to produce it. And of course it's part of the pipeline; the private school I went to strongly encouraged us to do either DofE, or the military cadets scheme, for at least a year. If you were good enough as an RAF cadet they'd even let you fly a plane eventually.

Having been placed on the Oxbridge pipeline, I arrived there to meet people from different parts of the UK with .. different experiences. Acquiring top marks at the nationwide maths exams despite being at a highly marginalised school, beyond the ability level of the teachers, despite a bomb going off in the distance during the exam, is definitely impressive.

Brace yourself to feel a bit sad as chances are you've not done many or any of the things suggested here. Few people climb mountains and start companies at 16.

What is wrong with listing academic achievements? Or with volunteering? "With the volunteering org I'm part of, we've helped X people to Y" etc. IMO, it does not even have to be attributable solely to you, as many achievements require a team. If I was an employer, teamwork counts.

> I wondered what some of the most impressive things you had seen in young people were.

"11-year-old skateboarder lands 1080" https://youtu.be/84VkS17b1P8?t=20

> Or perhaps I'm looking at this question the wrong way?

Yes. There are ~8 billion other people on the planet, trying to find a peak that hasn't already been climbed is probably not a good use of your time (unless you are truly driven, or called, to something.)

The great secret is to be of service to your fellow beings. If you measure your achievements by how much you have benefited the people around you you'll die happy and surrounded by love.

You can't take anything with you but you can affect what you leave behind.

This really doesn't impress me at all: > Obviously you will have outliers who have started companies at 16 and sold them for a few hundred thousand etc.

What does:

Organizing parties. Knowing a wide variety of people and organizing an event takes a lot of creativity skill and chutzpah.

Making music, not just good at a single instrument, but be able to play a variety of instruments, create new tunes, perform and have fun. Knowing the history and influences is a bonus.

Speaking multiple languages. Its always been too difficult for me.

Looking after people that were seriously sick. Parents/siblings with cancer, mental problems or disabilities. Its hard the hardest thing in the world. If you can come out all in one piece I have utmost respect.

> Knowing a wide variety of people and organizing an event takes a lot of creativity skill and chutzpah.

I used to look down on soft skill heavy jobs and tasks thinking it was bs that only people who failed in "real" tech/engineering would care about, until I realized how hard it is to get anything more than 3 people to work together, be on the same page and not stir up drama.

Impressiveness is subjective for all but the most outlandish feats, namely:

- Buying and selling a company at the age of 16

- Replicating a Rembrandt blind-folded OR having your original painting sold at an art auction for value in excess of 6 figures

- Performing Mozart's Fifth Symphony one-handed at the age of 6

- Writing 10000 kanji on a grain of rice

In short, you are looking at this the right way. The application is looking for your most outlandish feat.

Edit: Bulletized list.

In Denmark, I met an 11 year old girl who fluently spoke six languages. I was impressed but am unsure whether to classify her language skills as academic or outlandish.

I have a friend who had millions of YouTube views (and eventually a published book) as a teenager for his videos about Lego weaponry.

Impressive: Road a motorcycle from KC to Key West. Was a pretty sweet trip. Impressive: Top to Bottom to Top Grand Canyon hike in one day. It was snowing at the top and 85degrees at the bottom. IDC about that stuff though, it was fun, but honestly anyone could do it.

I think what gives me most fulfillment is regular, scheduled, planned giving charity. I do this is two ways, first monetary: As a policy, I don't give money to panhandlers, but I support a few local shelters (a women specific one, a food pantry, and a general local fund). Second, I volunteer time regularly through my church, which supports these missions. Whether it be participating in service by playing an instrument, using my project managements skills (I learned from my job) to organize people, or just showing up to sweat somewhere, I spend several days every month giving time away. And _that_ gives me purpose, and that gives me a lot of fulfillment.

I think of things that go on a resume as honors. I think an achievement is more personal and probably more difficult to "sell" to others as important. Some examples: Make a piece of art that takes 100+ hours. learn to speak a new language. alter popular culture, even if only slightly. teach/mentor the next generation.

Don't discount your volunteer work, especially if you have done it as a young adult (i.e., from personal conviction rather than due to home/school pressure). A lot of people will take that as a sign of emotional maturity, thoughtfulness, or conviction.

I heard through the grapevine, many years after the fact, that during salary discussions at an outfit that was planning to make me an offer, there was a small debate about how many years of experience to credit me. By the calendar, I had $y$ years of work since graduation, but in terms of job experience it was $y - 2$ years, due to time I spent in Peace Corps. The difference affected the salary range their internal guidelines indicated I could be offered.

Finally one of the PIs cajoled the "y-2" crowd, saying, effectively, Come on, he spent two years teaching math in a village with no electricity and no running water...

Succeeding despite a lack of education, or despite significantly disadvantaged birth circumstances, will always be the most impressive quality I find in a young person.

In terms of things you can actually apply without having said disadvantages, I would say anything that displays a kind of economic maturity, or a bias for long-term thinking. These are very rare and valuable qualities in all age groups, but are especially rare in younger people.

You can display that conversationally, by for example asking pointed questions about a company (or any kind of system) and its relevant external factors, and then extrapolating to possible future directions and outcomes. Or you can do any project that interests you for its long-term implications, and talk about future outcomes, anticipated success or failure scenarios, the potential impact of known unknowns, etc.

I think you should try to look for an achievement that's personally meaningful rather than "impressive" to some unknown stranger.

For example, summitting Everest is not as impressive as an achievement as it once was, not if you've seen the pictures of lines of climbers waiting just below the peak for their turn. I expect the next thing will be a Disney-style FastPass for an extra $30k, assuming we ever get over this pandemic. Of course it's still an arduous, dangerous, and expensive endeavor. But those things alone don't necessarily make it impressive.

You said that you volunteer. If you've done that on a consistent basis and out of your own volition, I would find that pretty impressive in a young person.

So it sounds like you're saying young to mean "before entering the job market?" Of course if you find a good job, hopefully you will have many things you are proud of working on and doing. I think being a professional, getting paid, and having people actually make money from the things you do is a pretty impressive achievement, and even more so if you do it for yourself (run your own business).

For people still in school, or applying to school (which I'm guessing is the application you're filling out?), I would say it's about projects. When I was in high school in 1998, I built a "portable" MP3 player using Linux and old computer parts that I put into a backpack. It didn't have a monitor, so we used the keyboard LEDs as control system. It was called the PIMP - the portable illegal music player.

Was this some impressive achievement that no one else could have done? Certainly not. But it's something you can talk about. Overcoming challenges are the achievements, what challenge is interesting to some, but how to overcome is interesting to more!

Honestly, after having kids of my own (two in <2 years), anyone with a large family is an achievement.

Budget, time, sanity, work - after having two of my own, I’m constantly surprised that people can work effectively and raise a family. Having kids puts you in a place where you have to teach, be calm & collected and provide — 100% of the time. It’s stressful and the vast majority of people (myself included) choose that life. It’s insanely impressive when I see a family of 4 with a couple successful parents (I.e. decent kids, good house/career)

Met a chap who spent 7 years not talking in a monastery. When I met him he was a mountain climbers which I'm indifferent to...but the monastery thing impressed me.

For me, it’s the realization that having achievements as an aim in life is overrated. To be content with what’s there (or not there) is an achievement by itself. It’s not easy, and I haven’t seen many “young people” achieve this. They’re usually pressured into achieving something so that they can have more self esteem as a reward. That’s so twisted.

Couple of random ones of mine:

Walking again a year after a road accident put me in hospital for several months, aged 19.

Buying a house and escaping an abusive home, aged 22.

Recognizing the negative baggage I had from my upbringing, deciding to be better; taking interpersonal skills courses, learning about emotional intelligence, Buddhism, and self reflection/awareness. Aged 23.

Riding a bicycle up the east coast of the USA.

Now for most proud of: Organizing a group of people to provide food, once a month, to people in need.

Both had as a mental note, what would I regret not doing, if the end was soon. I find 'regret avoidance' a big motivator for myself. With the caveat or, what will I regret for not doing.

When I was 15 years old I built a 3D FPS and somebody on PC Gamer wrote an article about the demo I released. It was a wild week telling my friends about it, and the fame got over my head to the level that I stopped working on it.

Ah... being a teenager again...

I blew "Amazing Grace" at the summit of Mt. Fuji on a highland pipe in '97.

Which, compared to escapologybb on this page, seems trite.

That gets at a Big Life Point: interpersonal comparisons are only useful insofar as they inspire.

achievements put too much of the focus on things that can be completed. these are things I find impressive in a young person

- consistently being mindful and compassionate; empathy and ability to listen

- donating one's time to help those less fortunate - often those who are to proud to ask

- being able to converse with those around without seeking to impress or gain the upper hand

- respect for wisdom: recognizing that however smart you may be, you're way behind those who have experienced much of life

The achievement I respect most? Keeping it together while taking care of a sick and dependent loved one. It changes everything and is sadly common.

Hiked / ran 50 miles in the Grand Canyon rim to rim to rim. Canyons are a great forcing function for mind over body.

>I wondered what some of the most impressive things you had seen in young people were.

Achieved 3rd jhana in concentration meditation.

Congrats! Did you do that on your own or with a teacher? I find it curious that you mix jhana which is normally from Theravada/mindful based techniques and concentration which is normally from Ch'an/Mahayana techniques.

Puddinghead

I didn't understand your comment. What I meant is jhana is Pali, most Ch'an/Mahayana sources go back to sanskrit and thus spell it as dhyana. A Mahayana practitioner saying jhana is as odd as a Theravadin saying dhyana.

some random things:

* open source contribution

* getting a book published with a major publisher

* winning a major award or trophy in almost any field/sport

* a blog with a lot of readers (or youtube channel)

* doing anything considered really difficult if you can tell the story in the right way

Volunteering has potential.

If your goal is to diversify achievements for applications, think of other axes your field. Personal projects, startups, blog posts, etc. Go to YC, work at a prestigious company, write for a big publication, get a high Codeforces rating. The list is pretty long!

If you're concerned about feeling underachieved, then just try a variety of things! They may not be things that others find impressive, or that even you would think to find impressive. I found physical activity/dance, building a simple raytracer and making top post on HN to bring a stronger sense of achievement than getting into YC or college (both of which I worked harder for). I also think it's important to separate achievements from age if you're young, otherwise the sense of achievement will start to go away. tldr I think there's little correlation with what other people find impressive and what I feel "achieved" about.

Does surviving a war count?

I created a simple video game 16 years ago in about a week's worth of work that people are still playing and enjoying today, and snowballed into several fun opportunities. It's a Flash game called Proximity. Here's a review it got on Newgrounds just a few months ago:

"Now THIS is a strategy game. Though the rules are simple, and the graphics are even simpler, what matters is the gameplay. And the gameplay here is pure strategy perfection. Every single move is a shrewd calculation of carefully contrived advantage, yet your turns pass at a snappy pace. You can glean the entire board state in little more than a quick glance, yet the board presents a different tactical situation almost every single turn. The very definition of depth of gameplay over breadth of content. Extra Credits would be proud."

I built a sequel and submitted it to Microsoft's first Dream Build Play contest and it ended up being a 3rd place finalist, and was playable at their XNAFest in Seattle, where a publishing company saw it, saw that I was local, and brought me in to discuss a possible publishing deal. Halfway into the talk it morphed into a job interview, and I ended up getting a job there, and got to work on a game for Xbox Live Arcade, one Sony PSP game (the only game I worked on with a physical retail copy), and two WiiWare games, so I got to see the publishing process for all three major console manufacturers in a short period of time.

During the first year the publisher sent me to GDC (Game Developer's Conference) in San Francisco. Microsoft had recently contacted me and asked if I was interested in putting a demo copy of Proximity 2 up on their new Xbox Live Indie Games service, and I rushed to get a version ready for it, and it was one of 8 games you could try before the service launched, which cumulatively were downloaded over a million times. Because of that, they had it playable on kiosks at GDC the one year I got to attend (I got to watch people playing it on the kiosk, even), and they even included a brief video of it in their Xbox Live Indie Games trailer during their keynote address during that GDC as well, which was awesome.

I held off on the actual release though, since I was working for a publisher that was still planning to publish it at some point, after we got past a couple other projects, and because I didn't want it to be a conflict of interest. It was pretty neat gig, because I was employee #3 at the company, so I got to go to developers and be treated like an executive, even though I was anything but. The games we released had some bad luck and didn't sell very well, though, and the parent company eventually shut down our branch.

That was also right in the heart of the Great Recession, and I had previously dropped out of college and still didn't have my degree, so I figured I better go back to school. While in school I worked on getting Proximity 2 ported to iPhone, because I thought that was a better opportunity I should try to cash in on, but I didn't market it properly and it ended up not doing super well, even though it was a faithful port (just lower resolution). I then backported the additions I made to the mobile version into the Xbox 360 version, added a few more things, and released that, but by that point it was already 2 years after the demo was out there, and everyone had pretty much forgotten about the game. It did okay, but not great.

After I finished my Computer Science degree, I took a stab at working for two more small companies, one that made mobile apps and games and another that made Facebook games in Unity, and eventually decided I should get out of the game industry. I've been working in jobs I've been much less passionate about ever since, although my software is used by more people than anything I ever did while working in the game industry (supporting software for a call center of 90 people, and speech applications for major corporations that have been used for about 2.5 million calls at this point).

I also started getting into board game design during this time, and eventually got one of my games signed, and another one was just recently announced to be a finalist in what's one of the biggest board game design contests in the US, although because of the pandemic they haven't been able to do the finals so it's been in limbo for several months now on whether I'll win (it probably won't, but I'm happy to be a finalist).

I also finally decided to resurrect my Proximity 2 game and I'm trying to bring it back to desktop and eventually mobile and consoles again. Adding support for more players, cleaning up the UI, adding localization support, upscaling graphics to 1080p, mouse support, achievements, and hopefully a single player campaign and online multiplayer (might not make it into the initial release).

Doing it on my own time, which is now competing with tons of other ideas I've had since then and a wife and 2 dogs that need me to spend time with them too, so it's going a lot slower this time around. Hoping to release something by the end of this year, though.

It didn't really fit up above, but there's been a few other cool things that happened with my Proximity game. Apparently it's been used by teachers for their programming classes sometimes, especially A.I. classes, where students are tasked with coming up with an A.I. for the game. I know because on three occasions I've had students hunt me down and ask me for advice for their project.

Also, I once bought a book called Advanced ActionScript 3 with Design Patterns published by Adobe Press, and while I wasn't mentioned by name, two chapters were on how to build my Proximity game, and using that to teach the Command and Memento patterns.

I also got contacted once about making a version for OMGPop's game system, which unfortunately fell through (I wasn't sure I'd have the time since I was struggling to get my degree finished that semester anyway), only for me to discover a year later that they ended up creating Draw Something and got so big they were bought by Zynga, so I'm kind of curious what would have happened to Proximity in that situation.

I kinda feel like Proximity could have had a legacy almost on the level of Tetris if I hadn't made a bunch of missteps and had properly capitalized on the momentum I had. Oh well. Maybe there's a chance for it to come back, still.

Bitcoin

my hot wife

Kylie Jenner's net worth is estimated at $1 billion.

Working smart > working hard

What makes you think she isn't working her ass off?

Plenty of people work harder and have nowhere near as much money. That’s a small part of how you know she’s working smart.

Considering her surgeries, I'd say she's been working her ass on.

She's not really working hard per se. Her net worth is a subject of frequent controversy, since much of her fame was inherited from the Kartrashian family.

No doubt she's done very well, but I took the OP to mean people who've achieved significant things without the absurdly privileged springboard of beauty, wealth and famous connections.

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