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Comment by watwut | Hacker News Reader

> There's plenty of other places you can go if you just want to be social.

There is not? People don't socialize without excuse and did not for years. People who want to socialize have to pick a hobby or interest and try there. It may be sport, bookclub, game, something technical, whatever, but it must be something.

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Bars and churches immediately come to mind, but depending on what city you live in there should be plenty of other opportunities: generic meetups, smallgroups, dog parks, volunteering, taking a class, etc.

Using hobbies is a great way to make friends if you enjoy that hobby. I just think it's a little disingenuous to go to a book club for something other than the book; it feels like going to the gym to just try to chat people up, or really any hobby-related gathering where you don't really care about the hobby. If you're not going to read the book for a book club, it just seems like you might have better luck finding shared hobbies with people at a different kind of club.

Then again, that's just my opinion of what my ideal book club looks like, but that's in no way the "right" way. Social book clubs are probably a great way to get more people to read things they otherwise wouldn't; I just don't get as much out of those kinds of book clubs.

> Bars and churches

Uh, what? I (and I imagine a good 50%+ of the hacker news readership, perhaps 75%+ if you exclude the USA) am never going to go to either of those without already knowing people.

> generic meetups, smallgroups, dog parks,

Places where you have nothing in common, so nothing to easily bond over (such as a book you've all read)

> volunteering, taking a class

Things where you should be focusing on something else, not socialising (such as in your ideal bookclub).

> If you're not going to read the book for a book club, it just seems like you might have better luck finding shared hobbies with people at a different kind of club.

What makes a book club different to any other hobby club? Or are you saying that you should only go to any hobby meetup if you're a "hardcore" hobbyist?

Because that leaves basically no way to meet people with common interests.

It sounds like there are a fair number of people who believe it is essentially impossible to socialize with people except at book clubs.

I am legitimately unsure reading the other comments in this thread whether you (or they?) are being serious.

In my mind a book club was a group of middle aged women drinking wine and talking about Fifty Shades of Gray. And even that I thought was just a cliche and not an actual thing.

Are book clubs actually a thing that people regularly take part in?

My comment was facetious, and I'll be honest, this whole part of the thread confused me. I suspect that people's desire to argue on the internet led them to defend a position they don't really hold that strongly.

I've been part of several book clubs. It's definitely a thing people still do. But, it's not the social event of the year or anything like that.

Actually reading a book that's discussed in the book club isn't being "hardcore hobbyist", it's table stakes. Or at least it should be, and I see GP's point.

(BTW. it's an old issue; there was even an old episode of Friends making fun of the conflict between joining a book club to learn vs. joining just to socialize.)

My experience from running a Hackerspace is that you need both. Time to talk about everything and nothing, and then time of focus for the people to actually practice their shared hobby. Otherwise everyone may just as well go to a bar for a beer.

> Otherwise everyone may just as well go to a bar for a beer.

Honestly, there's probably a sizeable 'market' for 'fairly broad interest group of strangers goes to a pub'.

I love the idea that i, a turbo-sinning atheist, might go to church just to hang out.

The practical problem with this is that services are at, what 9 in the morning on a sunday? The only communion i have any interest in taking at that time is with the cold side of the pillow.

But say the holy spirit [1] moves me to overcome that. Then what? "Yeah miss me with the biscuits padre, i'm just here for the bants!", not sure how well this is going to go down.

[1] whisky

In my (rather limited) experience most churches would be happy to have you even if you are only going specifically for the social bit.

They, of course, hope to "convert" you. Many seem to take pride in never "giving up" on someone no matter how long it takes.

I believe Wednesday night services are sometimes available depending on the denomination. And like 11am "second" services. YRMV

A lot will depend on the area and church, but many organize social/community events that are non-religious in nature, including book clubs. There's a good chance they're looking for volunteers for a wide variety of things too, many of those will be quite social. Personally I prefer the drinking beer and watching football style of community my sports club offers and it sounds like you might as well, but there's more to Churches than the weekly sermon.

My church had 10 Masses each weekend, all times of the day, until 8pm at night, back before Covid. I previously went to a church that had a 9pm Sunday Mass.

But yes, going just to meet people is the wrong attitude, but better than not going.

Where exactly do people go to bars without meeting friends group they don't already know?

> Using hobbies is a great way to make friends if you enjoy that hobby

That is literally the exactly same thing as books club. Books club is not special, it is yet another hobby used for socialization.

You don't go to gym to meet people, because gym is individual activity. But people do go to sports clubs to sport a bit and chat a lot.

I wonder if part of Crossfit's popularity is that it's somewhat less of an individual activity.

Also: why people to to college instead of just the library.

Precisely. The community aspect is more important to many people than the actual workouts themselves.

I think this can be said for many group-class-like workouts though.

>Where exactly do people go to bars without meeting friends group they don't already know?

For example, I've met plenty of neighborhood friends by going to live music nights at nearby bars and restaurants. The music was an "excuse" to go to a place I didn't know anyone.

In my city, there's also been bar nights specifically about meeting people, think speed dating but without the emphasis on dating.

> Where exactly do people go to bars without meeting friends group they don't already know?

Everywhere is my guess.

Some examples:

1. People go to their “local”. You probably already know people there, but you don’t when you first go if you are new to the area.

2. When you are out of town. Bars near convention centers can great places to meet interesting people. My local happens to be one.

3. When the bar has a theme you and your tribe like. It’s an easy way to meet new people you like. In larger cities, the bar scene is constantly evolving.

4. For live music. Having lived in Austin, there are great shows every night of the week. Yes, you usually invite friends, but there are some shows that I would not miss even if my friends didn’t want to go.

5. After a long day, I will sometimes choose to go to a bar alone and that is not likely to have anyone I know as customers. Sometimes I want to be around people and have a drink, but I don’t want to interact with anyone.

6. Same as 5, but I just want to read a long-form essay or a book.

I’m sure there are more.

Having gone to a lot of bars on my own, my experience is that people talking to lone strangers in bars is something that only happens in movies.

Alternate theories are...

1. I'm doing it wrong.

2. I'm going to big city bars where people don't talk to strangers.

I've never been to a book club, but at least it's an event specifically for people to talk to each other.

You're doing it wrong or going to the wrong bars. I'm as awkward a wallflower as they come, and I've still been drawn into my fair share of bar conversations and hijinks when drinking solo. And any good dive bar will have at least one old man drinking alone and willing to talk to anyone.

I think you are doing it wrong, or you are going to the wrong bars. I sometimes get chatted up even when I am staring at my screen trying to be ignored.

Try sitting at the bar itself. Assuming you are at a social bar rather than a speed bar (i.e., one where they are slinging drinks at a mile a minute), a good bartender will talk to you a bit, and that’s often a way to get the ball rolling.

I will also add that some bars are more social than others, even though they may seem very similar on the surface. I don’t really know why, but it could be the clientele, it could be the bartenders, or it could just be that specified time/day.

What about going to a party? That is a purely social event without any hobby attached to it. Hell, you can find random parties to attend on Meetup or similar if you really wanted, which I've gone to.

If you are extrovert and you are OK with dozens of strangers around you it will work.

If you have hard time getting along with random people and you need time to open up and get confident with others that is really bad idea. I think book club where mostly the same people who are also less outgoing is better option.

That's understandable. I wish there were a way of separating these two types of book clubs then, a casual versus hardcore variety. I think by doing so, fewer people would be disappointed when it turns out to be the opposite variety of what they expected. Thanks for your viewpoint, it helped me understand the idea better.

I don't think it's difficult? It's just in the way it's described.

> Monthly social book club, not too serious, new faces always welcome.

> Monthly book club exploring everything from X to Y with a focus on Z. Newcomers wanting a place to discuss how P Qs R with like-minded friends always welcome.

Book clubs are generally going to be fairly causal affairs since they're clubs. If you're looking for something serious find a study group or a book club that calls itself a study group. Book clubs are like many other clubs, where social bonding with the group is expected, and the book's an excuse to spend time socializing.

Seems you want a _book study_ not a _book club_. A club doesn't suggest to me a mode of intensity.

I expect you would feel very alone in the hard core book club. The socializing aspect with book clubs and any other hobby clubs are very high. Some people just looks around to find anything at all that helps them find someone to talk to, be it hobby train modelling, sewing or whatever. Book clubs are nothing special in that aspect. And most clubs are happy to get anyone, not just hardcore enthusiasts. Much like the church, they see it as an opportunity to sell their services.

As an introvert, I like going to parties. I get to meet new people and there's usually at least a couple of them who are interesting or hilarious or both. If you're socially anxious, then yeah, it might not be a great experience.

Somehow I think that party with strangers over meetup is not how majority of adults want to do things. The structure of club provides:

0.) Daytime activity so you get sleep and don't have to drink.

1.) Regular membership - meeting same people over and over again so that friendship can happen after months.

2.) Regular time and place so it is easy to add to schedule, agree with partner on who has kids and so on.

3.) Good fallback for when you dont fit in initially. Common topic.

4.) Safety. It is safer then party with strangers.

5.) Excuse. People need excuse to socialize. Socializing is seen as waste of time or as being bad parent. The club gives excuse for why you are not lazy for doing it.

Many book clubs are a type of party... a quiet, low key, themed party around a book.

What is wrong with people wanting to go to that type of party?

A party is the literal opposite of a bookclub. I just want to go to a cafe after work and talk to other nerds about a book we all read for an hour. If the discussion veers off topic then so be it. I don’t get this obsession to police book clubs for efficiency.

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