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Comment by dirtydroog | Hacker News Reader

Drivel. You can't have it both ways. It's easy to see what you're doing in C++ because you have to do it! It's the whole point of the language, and apparently the source of bugs.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt you've ever written a program in modern C++?

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"Modern" C++ is the No True Scotsman of programming languages, so you define it clearly and then I'll tell you whether I've written any. But I've written C++, including professionally. I expect to write some at work tomorrow, in fact.

It's not easy to see what algorithms you're using in a C++ codebase, because most of the lines of code are taken up micromanaging details that are broadly irrelevant. Yes, C++ makes it easy to tell whether you're using 8 bytes or 16 in this one datastructure. But you drown in a sea of those details and lose track of whether you're creating 10 or 10,000 instances of it.

I'd define modern as using RAII extensively and using C++11 at least.

As for algorithms, I honestly don't know what you mean. They're all documented online with respective big-O running times[1]. If you're talking about making unintended copies of things, then yes, C++ does expect you to know what's going on... it's the whole point of the language. If that's too much for you then don't use it, but that doesn't make it a bad language (I'm not denying it has some hair-pulling moments) Use std::move() when appropriate.

[1] https://en.cppreference.com/w/cpp/algorithm/sort (see 'Complexity' section.

> I'd define modern as using RAII extensively and using C++11 at least.

Then yes, I work on modern C++ codebases.

> As for algorithms, I honestly don't know what you mean. They're all documented online with respective big-O running times[1].

Nontrivial programming tends to involve implementing, or even inventing, some algorithms yourself.

Modern C++ means usage of reference counting (smart pointers), in some cases reference counting can be slower than a garbage collector.

In modern C++ the reference count is always 1 or 0 for 80% of the code and so there is no need to actually maintain the count. That other 15% needs a count which I agree is slower than gc done right. The final 5% has cycles and cannot be done by reference count.

Not really. Only shared_ptr uses ref counting, unique_ptr doesn't, and looking at our code base (highly networking orientated) we only use shared_ptr once. You could, in theory, use shared_ptr everywhere, but then you're not using the language properly and may as well resort to Java or similar.

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