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Comment by et2o | Hacker News Reader

The compact car thing is interesting. It seems like business travelers still rent compact cars or medium sized sedans 90% of the time in my experience.

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I haven't rented for business in a few years, but every time I did the difference in cost between a "compact" and a few sizes up was trivial, perhaps two or three dollars a day. I generally jumped up to the largest sedan size because the cost was negligible and the cars were typically much nicer. Additionally, if they were out of that size, they'd bump you up to an SUV for free.

All this to say, at the pricing I've seen there is very little reason for someone renting a car to choose to rent a compact. The rental company can always upgrade people who booked a compact into a larger car, but if you have too many compacts you're screwed.

It’s probably due to corporate travel policy on rental car. Most of the time it’s limited to certain class of vehicles, and it’s a hassle to upgrade depending on the company policy (screen capture price comparisons, director/VP approval, etc.)

> All this to say, at the pricing I've seen there is very little reason for someone renting a car to choose to rent a compact.

I can think of roughly 2 MM possible reasons[1] in conjunction with 1 regulatory constraint[2] that might suggest an investment in a fleet of compacts may not have been an entirely reckless business decision at the time...not that I would have swallowed that pill myself...just saying.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_De...

[2] https://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/Docs/perdiem/JTR.pdf Ref. § 020209

Also, car manufacturers force large rental companies to buy certain mixes of cars. For example crew cab pickup trucks are a horrible category for rental companies but they still purchase them every year. To get the insanely low prices they get on their vehicles they have to play by the manufacturers rules.

It's B2B in a commodity market where competition abounds. Manufacturers like Mazda, Hyundai, etc. don't have crew cab trucks in their lineup, so is doesn't make sense that a corporation would choose to sign a contract in good faith with a manufacturer that "forces" unwanted liability on its books in exchange for volume if executives of the former didn't perceive overall net outcome as favorable.

I never said the net outcome wasn’t favorable. I said certain categories underperform other categories by a wide margin. You are assuming the goal is to maximize RPU when he actual goal is to maximize the delta between purchase price and resale price.

My whole point is that a lot of what goes on in rental doesn’t make sense unless you view it at as a business that generates used cars.

However, I doubt you really care and were more interested in making a pedantic point about how contracts are voluntary agreements between rational actors.

But in the very rare case I want an SUV or a Cadillac sedan or something, the rate is bloody insane -- something like 4-5x the cost for a vehicle that costs less than double to purchase than a smaller car.

I guess maybe a Navigator depreciates more quickly than a Camry, and that's what you're paying for, given the rapid turnover of their fleets?

Luxury-type cars are also inelastic in price. If you're the type that will rent a Cadillac, you'll often do so at any price.

I don't know. Maybe I'm not the target market, but I often think "hey, I wonder if i can get something a little nicer.." and then am blown away at the multiples of price.

For SUVs, usually it's been considering a ski trip or something, so, yeah, I can see where people are "stuck".

I use Sixt whenever I can because they actually have nice european cars. Hit or miss in the US (I once got a Camry when I was trying to get an Audi A3; the Camry's a bigger car of course but I don't need a big car).

Flew into Seattle once, got a massive brand-new Volvo S90 sedan with all the bells and whistles for like $60 a day, same price other places wanted to charge me for a Camry. I'm sure if I had asked for a Cadillac from Hertz it would have been $400+ a day, and less desirable to me. shrug

I agree with you, but the places don't hold a lot of the luxury cars in inventory for this reason too. As you noted the depreciation is too large to accomodate this kind of strategy. Once in awhile you do get a deal; I flew into San Diego on a friday evening and had a mid-sized car with Enterprise, and they went into the upgrade pitch. I was half-listening until I heard they'd get me in a 7-series BMW for $5/day. I asked them to repeat it and sure enough, that's what it was. It was a rare weekend where convertible BMW's didn't rent out, so they slashed prices for a 3 day weekend rental.

It's rare but it happens. It does show that they usually rent out of that stock though at the crazy prices you do see, otherwise you'd expect to see those cut-rate deals more.

As an individual I tend to get the smallest car I need. I don't want to pay the extra costs of gas for a larger car. Thankfully, smaller cars don't have the embarrassing acceleration they did 5-10 years ago. I'm probably one of the few who prefer smaller cars; they're more nimble and easier to park.

They often seem surprised when I turn them down when renting.

As a business traveler, I only rented a compact car from Hertz and it was awful. I always go for medium sized now.

Rental car companies play game with the categories. Just a couple of months ago they tried to convince me a Camry is a full-size car and gave me a Corolla for my mid-size reservation.

Compared to the compacts I’ve rented... a Corolla is pretty mid-size

Compared to a 2000-ish model Corolla, a 2020-ish Corolla is pretty much mid sized.

I’d agree with their judgement. But I think it’s very subjective. Different parts of the world have different averages.

To me the Toyota range is like this:

- Yaris: compact

- Corolla: mid sized

- Camry: full size

Yeah, I'm curious if a Camry is mid-sized what a full size is. Taurus? Those things are absolutely massive. My Ford Focus feels big, honestly, but maybe that's because I live in a relatively urban area with pretty tight street parking?

Toyota's full-size sedan is the Avalon.

Car categories have agreed-upon definitions; what rental companies call them is usually a size up or two from the manufactuer's (canonical) names.

For Toyota, the Yaris is sub-compact, the Corolla is compact, the Camry is mid-size, and the Avalon is fullsize. For Chevy, the Spark, Sonic, Malibu, and Impala fill the same roles. For Honda, it's the Fit/Civic/Accord (they don't make a full-size). For Nissan, it's the Versa/Sentra/Altima/Maxima.

The Honda full-size equivalent is in the Acura lineup in the US. I don't think I have ever seen an Acura at a car rental place though.

One time I had the option in the lot between a Malibu and Impala, and figuring out which one was "better" in person was pretty tough. The overall length difference per Chevy is 7 inches, which seemed largely irrelevant in person. I guess if it all went to the back seat leg room then you have a distinction for a certain market.

For reference, Sonic can be up to 35 inches shorter than a Malibu (depending on style).

I thought the Impala was a Malibu with a bigger engine?

No. It's a totally different car. The Impala is (as previously mentioned) 7" longer - 201 vs 194.

Serious question but what is the advantage of getting a bigger car while on a business trip?

For a personal car I get it, as a bigger car is able to carry more people/objects but for a business trip I typically only have a small suitcase.

Every time I was given full size while on business I almost felt like it was a hassle more than anything else. It is more difficult to park in tight spots if I end up going to city centers.

If you are on highways, being in a small car is a safety risk, especially if the other cars on the highway are bigger.

I rented extensively when I was in management consulting and put 30k miles annually driving home on weekends. I can be a safe driver, but i'm also put at risk by other drivers who are not safe drivers. In those cases, you want physics working for you.

A more detailed answer: https://qr.ae/pNyaFd

So basically it's an arms race and we should keep arming ourselves with ever increasing cars to stay safe until we ourselves become a 'danger' to others? I feel super unsafe cycling in cities next to giant cars with poor visibility.

I get your safety concerns but why for the highway? There are no cars coming from the other direction so accident risk is pretty small. At least in Europe accident are way more common in cities then on high speed Autobahns.

In most cities where I have been, there is traffic congestion and speeds are usually low, most accidents are fender-benders. It is inconvenient to get into bumps, but not life-threatening.

On highways, at least in the US, the average speed is 65-70mph. You'll see some drivers doing 90 or more regularly. At 90mph, if you are in a compact car, if a truck or SUV hits you, there is a high chance of major injury or death.

You are right there are no cars coming from the other direction, but i've seen cars get bumped from the back, then spin. I've seen cars bumped from the corner by a driver who clearly did not check their blind spot, and the small car spins.

The small car is at a huge disadvantage, especially in the US where there are massive trucks and SUVs all over the highway. There is also bullying by bigger cars/trucks on highways where they expect small cars to get out of the way and/or drive defensively.

Non-minified link:

https://www.quora.com/Are-smaller-cars-necessarily-more-dang...

>Serious question but what is the advantage of getting a bigger car while on a business trip?

Ride quality, comfort and features usually go along with vehicle size. I've also heard that taller/wider people have problems fitting into smaller cars.

> Serious question but what is the advantage of getting a bigger car while on a business trip?

It's an upsell. If you perceive it as better, it's useful to you. But, if you like small cars, they are annoying to park and the clerk will give you a funny look when you say you like the small car better.

The latest Camry is 4,880 mm long while the latest Corolla is 4,640 mm. For comparison, the Mercedes-Benz C-Class is 4,686 mm while the E-Class is 4,923 mm.

The problem with those cars is that the windshield is raked so much that a lot of the front length is wasted. It's why our cadillac xts feels tiny compared to the chrysler 300 it replaced. And damn I want another 300 lol.

Was it the 2005-2010 Chrysler 300? Because that car actually shared a bunch with the Mercedes-Benz E-Classes. They apparently for example copied the W211 suspension for the 300.

A lot of this and some other design inefficiencies are due to modern EU pedestrian collision safety mandates and testing, which I think is a fair compromise to make, and they have since been adopted in some other places as well but they long affected most North American vehicles due to global standardization.

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a15118822/taking-the-h...

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