Etsy users irked after buyers, purchases exposed to the world
arstechnica.com
arstechnica.com
Hey, just want to clarify something as an Etsy employee. It's not your purchases that are public - it's your feedback on those purchases. I know it's a small distinction, but it's not like we have some sort of desire to publicize our members' purchases. Feedback is public by default just like it is on eBay - to increase accountability and transparency. It's also worth noting that feedback has been public since the site's launch (in fact, the option to make it private was only added recently). The new People Search feature does not change this at all.
How's that for satisfied customers.
What confuses me is that the privacy setting says:
PURCHASES
Who can see your purchases?
EDIT: I'll try to think out loud here and update as I wrap my head around this.
One of the examples states that he found a woman's results by her favourites. Those have always been an (opt-in) part of the privacy settings as I know.
The question is a) how he tied her favourites to her person on Google, and b) how the former example tied the purchase (or favourite, or buyer feedback) to the person. In (b), I haven't found anything that explicitly says that the woman was identified - just that some woman's dildo-related purchase was somehow visible.
Did they know the person by their user name and identify the person, or were the full names somehow visible, which created the - justified - outrage?
I hope this is a misunderstanding, but there are still some unanswered questions. Etsy deserves the benefit of the doubt, of course.
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UPDATE: Using this link:
http://www.etsy.com/people/<user_name>/feedback?type=for_others
I have not found any way to disable this.
This is, ipso facto, not contingent on the new privacy settings. It's a problem, but nothing points to it being a new one. I can't form a causal relationship like Ars Technica does based on this.
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Hopefully last update:
This all seems to be supported by Etsy's CEO: http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2011/03/etsy-users-irked-aft....
I don't know how display of purchases (not buyer feedback) was handled before, but I'll leave that head-ache for someone else to figure out.
Let's hope that Ars Technica own up to this correction and rectifies it.
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Addendum:
Seller feedback is also public like Buyer feedback. Caveat emptor indeed.
(search etsy for my username for an example)
I see this as a _major_ privacy screwup by Etsy. I don't mind people being able to see the earrings I bought my girlfriend a few years back, but I can _easily_ see people having purchases exposed that they really didn't ever expect to be made public. (and I'll guess there's a whole category of items that stop being bought on Etsy, and a category of purchases that won't be made there any more (who's gonna buy their mistress jewelery on Etsy any more?))
They let you enter your full name easily, but don't let you change it very easily. You have to ask customer service.
Privacy changes on Etsy aren't communicated very well, in my experience. They very rarely communicate changes to all members via email - hence, like the article says, if something changes and you don't visit the site frequently, you will never know. Some features start as opt-in, turn to opt-out, then change to not-opt-outable, and so on.
Being able to react to issues like this quickly is one of the great things about the Continuous Deployment process we have set up at Etsy. You can read more about that here:
http://codeascraft.etsy.com/2010/05/20/quantum-of-deployment...
http://www.etsy.com/teams/7716/announcements/discuss/6818578...
The statement linked there doesn't reassure me that Etsy might not "do a Facebook" and back down on privacy complaints for now, only to re-introduce them later on.
Would anybody from Etsy like to state for the record that they understand that they made a serious mistake, and assure current and future users of their site that they _do_ respect our privacy and guarantee not to "leak" information like this, at least not without a very well explained opt-in mechanism in place first?
Purchases
Who can see your purchases?
[x] Everyone (public)
[ ]Only you (private, between you and the shop owner)
I then decided to opt out - a decision I only knew I had to make after reading the Ars article.
The seller feedback mechanism we changed last night was something that had been in place since the beginning of Etsy. So, this particular issue we addressed was not a bugfix or a reversion of a previous change.
I mean, sure, before reading this I thought Etsy was cool because of the continuous deployment thing, but now I think two things:
1. perhaps continuous deployment leads to launching features without thinking about their consequences for long enough; 2. Etsy's team is more interested in thumping its chest about continuous deployment than owning up to a serious mistake.
* Seller feedback hidden
* Buyer feedback hidden (or at least anonymized)
* Purchase history can be hidden by opting out
This is the type of thing that should most certainly be either not implemented at all or an opt-in type of thing if etsy still decided to go through with creating the feature.
The only way to minimize the damages would be to roll back the feature completely and apologize. Or turn it off for everyone and leave the option to turn it back on. But that's a major PR blow.
But Etsy is in part successful due to the success of its sellers and their unique offerings, making it a more symbiotic relationship. Merchants aren't helpless and can put pressure on Etsy to be more open about changes, and ensure that the privacy of their customers is always a first consideration.
So no, Thomas is serious -- as am I. I hate shit like this because these kinds of security and privacy violations are not things the average consumer knows how to protect themselves against. It's non-trivially solved. You and I might be able to do it, but most folks can't, and they shouldn't be punished because of it.
+Private Thank You! Enjoy! Check back with us. We are always adding new items. 420Chopshop .com
I bought a gift for my cousin and now my profile is tagged with 420chopshop (they also sell things that aren't related to marijuana). It seems like you can write anything you want in feedback and there is no way to hide or remove it.
While I don't find it to be a huge issue, it will make me think twice before buying something from Etsy in the future.
Next para: "Critics of Etsy's new policy seem to have a thing for searching for artisan dildos, but the point is pretty clear."
That is one spectacular double pun at the end...
Some users think that "feedback" is like an email to the seller; it won't be public.
Given that people are upset, why doesn't Etsy just disable this "feedback is public on your profile" feature?
The description of the dildo.
But, does feedback expose purchases? If so, there needs to be an explicit explanation (or policy) that identifies this will occur on Etsy.
Otoh, the screenshot in the article makes it look like it's all purchases. So which is it?
http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2011/03/etsy-users-irked-aft...
The limbo leading up to a decision isn't going to do either party any good.
Now, I barely use etsy but my gf is a heavy user. I admire your company, but if this is true -- that any purchase I or my gf make can receive public feedback from the seller -- that's really not very cool. Plus your ceo has a "plan" to allow people to disable it. It's hard to believe that your current answer to "I bought a custom dildo and the seller said I was a good buyer" is "tough shit -- email our customer service to hide your name and wait for this change to be deindexed from G/Y/B".
I hope that I've misinterpreted the above article / response, because based on my limited purchasing history at etsy, it's not at all what I would have expected.
As far as the visibility of other feedback goes, such as the feedback you make on a seller, you can mark the feedback as 'private' when you make it to hide the item involved.
I thought the point was that access to seller feedback is public too - even if one doesn't leave feedback if the seller says "thanks" then you're marked publicly as a buyer of that product.
+10 for continuous deployment, too.
Just wanted to let you know that we have resolved this issue. As of right now, all your purchases and feedback on Etsy are now automatically set to private.
You can read more about it in our blog: http://www.etsy.com/storque/handmade-life/rethinking-feedbac...
Be that as it may, I can imagine it's not easy to resist the urge to 'swing for the fences' and 'make a platform play' or 'build a social-commerce ecosystem' when you're killing it in a space you pretty much invented like Etsy is.
http://arstechnica.com/web/news/2011/03/etsy-users-irked-aft...
This is a pain, sure, but for everyone to suddenly be saying "if they don't fix this today I'm never using them again" -- don't you think that's a bit rash?
Why can't we raise our concerns about this policy with pointless threats that so little will ever carry through with. This is a relatively small issue, but one that a lot care about, so make it clear it matters to you but to say "if you don't fix it I will never use you again" is lame. Explain why this is bad instead of just saying you'll never use it again. It seems so childish.
I also take issue with your statement that "this is a relatively small issue", while the items I personally bought on etsy are fairly mundane I don't want my shopping history to be easily googleable. How would you feel if the local XXX store started posting pictures of all of the customers in the news paper (or even just putting them up on the web)?