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Comment by welterde | Hacker News Reader

Archlinux had their own non-sysvinit system (which went away in favor of systemd) as does voidlinux (runit based) and alpine (OpenRC) today.

The problem is less the init system itself, but applications that depend on a specific init system [1] (gnome used to be a major source of contention in that regard).

[1] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Hard_dependencies_on_systemd

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What apps depend on a specific init system?

Gnome does not depend on systemd, but rather logind.

KDE used to be the same, until someone started maintaining ConsoleKit2 again, proper, at which point they were happy to support it.

ConsoleKit was dropped because it just wasn't being maintained, and had various limitations.

Why does logind depend on systemd?

It's part of the systemd project umbrella? It's part of the systemd monorepo? It uses libsystemd?

Maybe it's simply easier to maintain this way?

elogind exists, if you care. It exposes the DBus interfaces that logind supports for applications to call.

Thus, environments like Gnome can be supported on non-systemd systems if they emulate and/or expose and implement the required DBus interfaces.

That's sort of the complaint, why I accused them of "doing their own weird version of EEE". When faced with a choice of "make everybody else do a whole bunch of work so that they're not forced to use your entire project-umbrella" or "make some minor changes to our architecture so things aren't as tightly coupled" they almost always choose the one that forces you to use systemd.

logind has a stable API, it is possible to build alternative implementations not coupled to systemd, yet so far I don't see much on that front.

To the extent that you believe that free software development should work such that random people on internet forums dictate the architecture to the people who are doing the work, and instead of writing their software to solve problems that actual users have, they should comply with these whims, you better prepare to be disappointed.

Is applications depending on systemd particularly a bad thing? If we don't want applications to use non-SysVinit features, we might as well keep using SysVinit.

Why should my window manager dictate what programs are allowed to start it?

For the same reason every piece of software 'dictates' its dependencies.

If you don't care about portability at all.. (regardless if it's just within linux or to *BSD).

And like I already mentioned in my previous post.. there are other alternatives around than just SysV-init..

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