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Comment by whoisjuan | Hacker News Reader

Windows incrementally removed the "Start" button and had to roll back.

This is simply an issue of creating generational products that adapt to the new ways your demographics are using technology. You can incrementally change a product but you will never be able to use new interaction patterns in a product that is used by people who don't know them and don't want to learn them.

Generation Z and Generation Alpha kids are not going to use Access. They will be using this or whatever succeeds this. That's for sure.

This is the same reason why Apple is going full steam into making the iPad its core productivity and creativity device. Newer generations have way better dexterity when using touch as an input, than let's say my generation (millennials). They know Macbooks are products with a UX expiration date.

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I’m a Millennial and I’ll gladly use an iPad as my primary computer if it actually does everything a normal laptop can do. I honestly don’t see a difference in touch-based technology aptitude or dexterity between Millennials and Gen Z.

I considered myself pretty good with touch devices until I saw a kid editing a video in TikTok. Believe me, they have more dexterity.

I learned to use a computer with a physical keyboard and mouse. My nephew’s first and main computing device was an iPad. That definitely makes a difference.

This is interesting, would you be able to find something on YouTube that highlights this dexterity? I’m not entirely sure what to look for to see this new way of computing.

Look up videos of 20-somethings using Ableton Push and similar devices. They don't just play music with it. They use it to make entire songs at every stage.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAeybdD5UoQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTx3G6h2xyA

I already have enough trouble with a piano with clear groupings to help find notes. I don't think I would get far with one of these.

This is certainly impressive, and I couldn’t do it, but I seen no reason why someone who puts an appropriate amount of hours into practice couldn’t do this too, no matter their age.

> they have more dexterity.

Carpet industry is infamous for this, employing kids for their 'nimble fingers' for manipulating delicate knots.

However, question is the same generation who are dexterous in editing TikTok video on mobile phone will grow up and loose dexterity. So, are we talking about new interface paradigm for only kids (and not any specific generation - X, Y or Z)?

Essential tremors are absolutely a thing as one ages too (and develops a coffee habit).

Interesting. I didn't think about it that way, but it's totally possible that you lose that ability as you grow older.

> Believe me, they have more dexterity.

Perhaps until you try them with tools like scissors, or manipulating objects like a piece of string?

I think Dexterity implies good skills with a wide range of affordances (not just with a touch interface).

>> Windows incrementally removed the "Start" button and had to roll back.

I mean, flat out removing something, by definition, is not incremental.

I don't remember how it happened as I had moved off of Windows in that period, maybe they made it slowly opaque over a couple releases.

If you can’t remove elements, you can’t refine design incrementally.

They should've shrunk the button down each release. For any features I plan to remove I'll gradually make them smaller.

The corner still worked as a start menu, and they told you that on first run. It was as incremental as possible.

"They told you it was there" from a UX perspective is about as good as it not being there.

Didn’t they keep the “start” button but change the menu to the full screen Win8 version until they brought back the menu for Win10?

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