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when you have ADHD these types of rules are really helpful. some people might find them weird and say "just change your schedule, do it later, whatever", but I know if I postpone it I'll forget it or screw up doing some other chore or a "previously allocated free-time".

I would second this having hard fast rules works, but for me, meds where the real night and day difference. It's literally like someone flips a switch in my brain when I am on, or off ADHD medication. I get so single task focused off the meds, but on the meds I can completely break in my mind and accomplish the 2 minute task that has needed to get done for a week now.

Are the meds effective long-term? I'm kinda terrified of the idea of being able to just turn normal on, but then one day having to turn it off.

I have been on them for several years, had to go up in dose in the first 6 months but after that they have worked ever since. I take an obscure and old ADHD medicine called Desoxen and my dosage is 15 MG twice a day, it has been the same dose for over 4 years, Desoxen had less side effects for me than some of the other meds like Adderall.

Also if you do have ADHD, that is exactly what it is like, turning normal on. It's like a switch and ADHD meds are one of the few mental health meds that have an extremely high success rate. That's the thing, you know with the first dose. If you have it, you take the meds and you are basically like wow, this is what normal feels like. If you don't have it, then I guess you get a little high and speed out, or so I have been told, it does not have that effect on me.

I resisted the diagnoses and taking meds for years before I decided to give it a try. I really regret that I did not listen to the doctors sooner. I wasted a lot of years locked in the ADHD trap and denial.

Just FYI, Desoxyn is literally a trade name for methamphetamine (so much for obscure). Also if that surprised you at all, Adderall is (more or less) the same thing minus a single carbon from the end.

Amazing the difference in outcomes when it's purchased from a reliable source and consumed in moderation! (This also applies to the so called "opioid crisis", but I'll save that rant for another time.)

Yes obscure might not have been the best fit. But it is a really old treatment for ADHD and is not used much now days. A lot of that has to do with patents and no pharmaceutical companies pushing it. Others have to do with the fact that it is pharmaceutical methamphetamine.

It's a little much to go over in text, but this guy:

https://youtu.be/TCPxPI_q8C8

gives a really good overview of the differences in the chemicals. He does not go into methamphetamine (Desoxyn) but I did a lot of research on it as well when I was looking to find the most effective treatment for myself. Having taken Desoxyn, Adderall and Dexedrine, I find half the dose of Desoxyn equals a similar dose of Adderall so 15mg = 30mg, with a lot less of the physical side effects (methamphetamine crosses the blood-brain barrier easier and has an affinity for the CNS over the PNS). To me Desoxyn and Dexedrine are similar but Dexedrine required a slightly higher dose, and did not create quite the clearheaded-ness that Desoxyn does.

Really appreciate the reply.

A couple of months ago I came across this article / HN thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22129777

I walked away from it with this notion that it all sounded a little too familiar. But it was just a curiosity in the back of my mind. I wasn't really brave enough to take a proper look. Then during lockdown working remotely the difference became quite visible to me. I started to do a bunch of research and read about others experience/description. Penny after penny after penny started to drop. Still dropping tbh. I always knew I was a little different. I always thought to myself "if only I knew the name of whatever this is then I could get my wife to understand why I just can't seem to do the damn dishes". I booked an appointment to get a proper Dx but still have to wait a few weeks. I'm fine with diagnosis, but the meds I'm still not sure about.

Again, really appreciate the data point. Glad to hear it has such a positive effect on you.

Funny you mentioned the dishes, because that is one of those really simple tasks that I would ignore to focus on whatever I was focused on. Now I do the dishes to take a break, almost subconsciously. Any cleaning used to require it's own dedicated block of time (usually Saturday) on the meds cleaning is just something I do to take a break and regroup. For me and my ADHD without meds hyper-focus was easy (If I am interested in what I want to focus on) but breaking out of that hyper-focus was like killing my dog.

It's not all rainbows and unicorns though so make sure you do your own research. Sometimes the meds can cause insomnia, dental health is a real issue with amphetamine based drugs (this is due to them causing dry mouth) you have to drink lots of water to offset it and dental hygiene is of the utmost importance, the dental effects can be avoided but it required steadfast attention. Finally there are some cardiovascular risks, which while they should not be overstated they should not be ignored either.

On not being sure of the meds, my advice would be try one dose, then decide if it is right for you or not. There is no ramp up time, like depression or bi-polar meds, you will know how effective they are going to be and if they are right for you with a single dose. As well there are different strategies for using ADHD meds, some people take them daily, some people only take them when they get down in the weeds and need to pull themselves out the choice is yours with how you manage it.

> breaking out of that hyper-focus was like killing my dog

That's such good way to describe it for those who just don't experience it.

It's like if you had just reached the decision logically to turn off life support for someone you love. It's not like you just straight away walk over and switch it off. There's this awful reluctance that you have to go through first.

Medication sounds like quite a mixed bag, but I'm feeling somewhat more willing to give it a try.

Something that helped me -even if you get diagnosed and get a RX, you have no obligation to take those meds and can stop at any time. At first I was so wary that I was only taking one dose a week. Might be worth a shot, as the improvement to quality of life can be dramatic.

> ... you have to drink lots of water

That's a fact! One of the weird things about Adderall at least is that you no longer have any physical needs. You don't get thirsty and that's a good way to end the day with a killer dehydration headache.

I suspect that some of the cardiovascular risk can be minimized by making sure you are not taking a dosage that is too high for you. Your heart should not be racing at all with the right dose.

I don't want to minimize it, but the cardiovascular risks are minimal if you don't have a serious underlining condition. They increase BP a little over what caffeine does and less than Nicotine does.

The lack of cravings is a weird side-effect. I love to eat but when I take my meds I could care less. Especially Desoxyn, it's like Adderall x 100 in the don't care if I eat department. Adderall did have one really weird side effect for me and was the reason I looked into other meds and that is it increased my sexual urges quite a bit. Really to an unhealthy level. I have read that it has that effect on certain people and that it comes from the levo-amphetamines and their targeting the PNS more than the CNS.

I also resisted getting diagnosed as I did not want to rely on "drugs" and I figured that I was just lazy or unmotivated. Eventually my coping methods like drinking tons of coffee just did not help at all and I took the plunge.

It really is an issue of denial. I realized instantly the first time I took Adderall that I should not have waited so long. It is kind of frustrating to look back and realize how many of my issues, especially in school, can be attributed to unmanaged ADD. I wish someone would have advised me to get help 15 years ago, but oh well.

For anyone reading this, I highly encourage getting checked out if you have ADD symptoms and are not depressed (depression can look like ADD). I just want to note that dependence was my main hangup, but it has not been an issue- I regularly go a few days at a time with no meds on weekends or vacations and I don't have any negative symptoms or cravings.

https://www.verywellmind.com/adhd-symptoms-4157281

Funny enough those of us with ADD/ADHD don't have a high dependancy profile for stimulants we just don't get the euphoria that others describe from using them. Now I have never abused mine I am sure you can get there if you take enough. It just does not have the same effect on us as it does normal people who already have enough dopamine in their brain.

Funny story, I used to work for a nutritional supplement company and we would pull some all nighters, we where all young and liked what we did. We published a magazine and I was in charge of the web assets as well as the enterprise systems. Anyways, I was done one night and just could not go anymore and the CEO says here take this and I was like, what is it? and he says oh it's Ephedrine so I took it, and finished work at about 11-12 PM went home completely clear headed and started doing projects that I had been putting off for months. This lasted for 8 hours, I was like this is really weird, I have taken Ephedrine before and it never did that. I would get a little clarity but nothing like that. So anyways I go back into work the following Monday and I say to him, dude what did you give me that was not Ephedrine. So he rifles thru his desk and I hear an oh shit, I am so sorry dude. I was like sorry about what, and he said I accidentally grabbed my bottle of Fen-Phen and gave you one of those. Anyways the point of the story is I should have realized then and there that the medicines helps but I was still in denial. Mainly due to my ability to easily hyper-focus so I can be really productive at one thing.

Truth; my girlfriend has had to learn to cope with her ADHD undiagnosed and unmedicated for the better part of her life, sticking to a morning routine is super important for her.

Me, I just like to know what's happening. I like regularity, but I'm not hung up on it.

I find rules helpful. When I had a rigid schedule I had an alarm clock rule: "When the alarm clock rings you get out of bed. No snooze. You can sit on a chair, but you can't be on the bed." Sometimes I would sit on a chair and fall asleep and then end up on the floor. Generally, once I was out of the bed the day would just start.

Haha

Often, when about to ignore a mundane task that really should be done immediately, I say to myself "Which sort of person do you want to be?"

This is question invites a judgemental attitude which can be extremely counterproductive.

It's far better to use mindfulness and let yourself do what you really want to do.

What if I really want to help myself make positive decisions? I'm talking about picking up a toy left in the hallway by a child or a scrap of paper that fell out of the bin - things that others walk past and pretend they didn't see. Am I the sort of person to just deal with it right then, or take the lazy option. I don't find it extremely counterproductive at all.

I have a lot of similar rules for mundane tasks and it shows when I've slacked. In addition, I also take time to verbalize how much I appreciate having (say) a clean kitchen, both immediately after the task, and whenever I actually appreciate it (like, say, first thing in the morning when I'm moving slow and just want some coffee).

For things that require focus, I do pomodoros. Knowing I have a break of X minutes coming up in Y minutes lets me focus on the task. It also provides a mini-deadline so I'm more likely to get the task done. Just before the break, I spend a minute or two deciding which micro-task I'm going to tackle during the next pomodoro, and do what I need to close up the current micro-task and prep for the next one so I can hit the ground running. This helps motivate me to start the next pomodoro at the end of those X minutes as well as make the best use of that time.

I keep hearing about pomodoro as a method of helping people focus, but part of my current fears are being 'removed' from the topic I'm working on mid-way.

I get the feeling that if pomodoros worked, then by the same logic knowing that I have a meeting in 30 minutes would aid my focus, but instead it's the complete opposite, I consider that I can't fill a 30minute window meaningfully and thus do nothing.

Maybe there's something there though, I can't really say I've tried it so I probably should, given how frequently it's mentioned as a solution to these kinds of issues.

Same trick as gp, you don’t wanna break the chain. If you’re interrupted whether self imposed or external, the Pomodoro doesn’t count. If you procrastinate, it doesn’t count.

> I consider that I can't fill a 30minute window meaningfully and thus do nothing.

A pre-made list of 25-minutes-or-less tasks helps with this.

I timebox only certain types of activities for exactly that reason. To me it's not really amenable to creative problem solving work. It might be for some, but not me. But it can work magic when I leverage it between one fun task that's easily interruptible and another boring task that is too.

I've done them on and off. A good trick if you're worried about derailing is to spend your breaks exclusively like this:

- sit in your chair with your eyes closed (standing or lying down is ok too)

- let your mind become blank. Just focus on your breathing.

- Thoughts of your work may float through your mind. That's okay, you're allowed to think about them, as long as it's passive; you shouldn't be focusing on them.

- Bio breaks are allowed. Browsing or other device usage (checking texts) is not.

I did this mostly in undergrad when I needed to hit deadlines. I found it was a good way to keep my energy up. Also, sometimes I'd catch myself diving too deep into a tangent.

Note: I usually didn't follow the full technique of setting specific goals for each pom and/or tracking whether I reached them. I used the standard 4x25min with 5min breaks, and then took a longer break (or nap) where I was allowed to check email, or other potentially distracting activities.

I've heard about something similar in The Science of Well Being course (currently free on coursera, highly recommend.

I remember these as "if-then rules" for the mind. If you have some complicated challenge ahead you can mentally prepare for it thinking about the goal, then about how great it will be to achieve it and then about potential challenges and problems. You can set these rules ahead before you start. So when the need occurs it will take less effort for the mind to follow up (as you have some rules in place for the situation already)

Procrastination is often mainly about "getting started". Once you've done it you can finish, but until you start you can doddle and doddle. For those who have this problem, the key is to force yourself to get started.

Sometimes the task at hand is monumental and it feels like scaling mount Everest. But still, once you're in the thick of it you can maintain a pace for a while and make progress, but until you start, the whole thing feels imposing.

> I'm a master procrastinator. Mostly because I have so many things I could do that I have this background feeling that I'm neglecting everything else if I focus on one thing.

That low-grade background anxiety is actually something that better organizational skills can fix. Although I suspect that if you did fix it, you'd discover that there's more to your procrastination problem than that.

Interesting. I am quite keen on resolving my procrastination problem. I used to be intently focused until I became senior enough to set my own tasks.

Is there an entry point you’d recommend?

I may have overstated my point a bit, because everyone has a different base level of anxiety and tolerance for disorder, and everyone will also go through unavoidable periods of stress. I recommend (re-)reading The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, Getting Things Done, and Deep Work if you haven't already.

I'm afraid my advice is not very original, but beyond a few common principles, getting organized is a very individual kind of thing.

I've read that most procrastination problems come from anxiety or perfectionism (fear of not being able to do X perfectly, low self-esteem / fear of being ridiculed for your work etc)

Have a look here: https://cci.health.wa.gov.au/Resources/Looking-After-Yoursel...

> If the milk is 1 day to expire, I stop everything and go shopping, I take the trash with me. (part of the rule)

Just for the record, you probably have a good solid week or more on that milk before it would start to taste funny. Not that it should stop you from shopping, but you don't have to throw that milk out!

> When I want to go to bed, I have to write down the first thing I will do the next day.

Wow, this is excellent. Thank you for sharing, I'll try to implement this one.

Although my problem is that I break this type of unbreakable rules regularly, I have upsettingly little control over what the future me is going to do.

Yes, but it's up to present you to not let the past you down.

The psychologist Peter Gollwitzer calls if/then rules like this “implementation intentions.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implementation_intention

I'm working out the pseudocode for this and it's already spaghetti ;)

I really like you

See, I'm good at making "unbreakable" rules, but I'm much better at breaking them.

See my advice about trying to make it a chain.

Once you've done it twice maybe three times, you don't want to reset the progress. Over time it gets easier (because you're making a habit) and because there's even more of a ritual involved.

You'd be undoing all the hard work you've done. You won't break it.

Just get 2-3 iterations of the rule under your belt..

This happened to me with my weight loss. I made a chain of it and did intermittent fasting for 9+ months with maybe one hiccup, but even on that hiccup day it was not a complete break, but just a bending of my rules (16 hours vs the normal 20, etc).

However, when Christmas came around, I started traveling and relaxed a lot more, feeling good about my progress from the months before.

It's not May and I'm just now hopping back on the train with the same intensity I had before. I usually got to 16+ hours, but my food choices were shit and I was overeating. Every time I ate when/what I wasn't supposed to though, I felt like an even bigger failure and used those emotions to justify my bad behavior.

It's been 1 week now since I've gone back to my more strict regimen and last night I really really really wanted to go out and get a burger around 1am. I managed to wait out the craving but it was insanely difficult and it's affected my work performance today.

All that to say, the chain is powerful in both directions. After you break it the first time, it's a lot easier to break again.

integrity issue IMO. you're OK with making commitments and not delivering on them.

controversial, perhaps, but fixing your integrity issues can go a long way. part of that means making commitments that matter, not role-playing about them.

most try to fix their integrity issues overnight by doing things like dieting, planning to go from 0 to insane exercise, or whatever else. that's tough, and probably won't work unless you've got the reserve capacity of someone who just took the cloth for like 12 months or something.

This is an excellent observation, thank you for the perspective. I realized that this is likely what I struggle with, and procrastination is rather a symptom of the issue. I find it very hard to make commitments to myself (and sometimes others) that I will follow through on. Once I am in a groove, I will continue, but starting is painful.

Have you dealt with rebuilding this in yourself?

a little bit :)

most helpful for me was making a "said i'd do it" category on my planning document. it has led me to:

- commit to doing things i put on the list - even if they suck

- lead me to promising to do a lot less things (generally good)

but, mostly i just wondered: do i want to see myself as someone who flakes? who says they'll do something and doesn't? does that reflect on my behavior in things that aren't so small? and decided that i needed to do better for myself.

Thanks for the insight! I definitely have some introspection to do on the topic, but I like the idea of the "Said I'd Do It" section for to-dos. Those tasks are inherently different than normal ones and I think the separation is a good training mechanism.