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Comment by mike_d | Hacker News Reader

The Dutch have an absolutely amazing intelligence apparatus.

In 2014 AIVD hacked the office network of Russia's APT29, and maintained access at least through the 2016 DNC hack. The best part was they also had access to the security cameras and were able to watch the attacks in real time.

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They can't be that good if you happen to know this and be writing about it on the internet.

Or this is the least of their exploits, and releasing this info is a psyops thing.

Covert access for over two years to every part of the GRU's election meddling apparatus is very impressive, actually. Once you're caught, too, there's sometimes value in sort of showing it off and embarrassing your adversary.

In general, in the spyworld you do not talk about your tricks. But if you've already been found out, and your tricks no longer work, there is still political advantage to be had (damage your adversary, obtain credit from partners, obtain funding, easier recrutement).

https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2018/01/dutch...

Or if you just want to claim it to damage your adversary, whether they have the unit you supposedly hacked and it does what you say it does, or not...

From what I've read, things started going wrong when an (ex?) official of the US released information the Dutch shared with their American allies[1]. Details on when or why access to the Russian networks was lost aren't readily available (secret service and all that) but I do remember reading about the intelligence agencies being not particularly pleased with the way the information was publicly released by their allies. It makes sense that someone gloating about how there's an ally of theirs in your network will make you take a second look at the traffic flowing through your network if you're waging cyber warfare.

[1]: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/new-d...

As a Dutch citizen, I am very suspicious about this story. Sounds too good to be true? Probably is not true.

The timing was also amazingly convenient.

As another Dutch citizen, it's a true story! Read about it here: https://amp.nos.nl/artikel/2213762-hackteam-aivd-gaf-fbi-cru...

I know it has been reported in the news. Does not make it true.

They were pretty public with the evidence when it came out (including releasing security camera footage and names of Russian agents). Which parts do you think are false?

And those names can't be faked (or belong to true people but not relevant to what they supposedly did) because?

I'd be sceptical of any "revelation" from such agencies...

There's evidence that it's substantially true (ex. security camera footage and confirmation by most worldwide press outlets).

Curious if you have evidence that it's fabricated? Other than your distrust of intelligence agencies in general.

>Curious if you have evidence that it's fabricated?

What happened to the burden of proof?

Especially from professional liars like intelligence agencies...

So, no?

No, they don't have any proof just a claim we should take at face value.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

I advice to read this book then: https://www.bol.com/nl/p/het-is-oorlog-maar-niemand-die-het-...

It was in there. Pretty interesting read as well. Lots of stuff on FoxIT and the guy behind it.

It doesn’t seem an English translation of the book has been released yet. I don’t speak Dutch so apologies if this is a silly question but when you mention FoxIT are you referring to the PDF application?

It's this FoxIT I imagine: https://www.fox-it.com/en/

Ah, that makes much more sense! Thanks!

Agree with you. Sounds too good to be True. IMO, Probably somebody had a mole inside GRU who was instrumental in getting the info. but in order to provide cover for its source, they invented a success story of the AIVD.

There isn't much literature on it (Dutch spying activities), but the little there is might convince you.

A fun exercise is applying with the AIVD or NFI (involved in spying on home soil). You may meet someone who can tell you some good war stories. Of course, you'll be bound not to speak of it outside company walls ;)

I'm skeptical of that story. I know a Russian on Facebook who disputed it. He said that the Red Square building described in the report doesn't exist, and provided a Google Maps view of Moscow to support his claim. It's also curious to me why the Dutch even would allow APT29 to get away with their activities at the time, if they truly had access as deep as they claimed.

Or they advertise that they have.

Including making up claims for specific foreign countries people have no way of substantiating...

I know it's probably unintentional considering the false news reports at the time, but the 2016 DNC hack was actually never conclusively pinned on Russia.

In fact, according to a recent release the entire basis for the US intelligence appartus' opinion was totally unproven.

CrowdStrike never conclusively proved Russia was behind the hack, and in fact didn't even conclusively prove a hack even occurred.

https://www.itwire.com/security/crowdstrike-chief-admits-no-...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_Winner

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