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> And as a cooperative all dabbawalas are equal partners with supervisors called mukadams who are elected.

That would seem to make it pretty fundamentally incompatible with the wage extraction operations that are uber, deliveroo etc.

And the fact that the average length of employment at this is measured in decades, possibly generations. It's an ecosystem not a startup.

(Which doesn't mean there aren't things to learn, of course, for those trying to run more conventional businesses.)

A coop operating alone in this space, or competing with other coops, would definitely make a profit. But a coop can't compete with a VC backed startup that will use every legal, illegal, ethical and unethical trick in the book it can get away with to, to destroy its competitors.

> But a coop can't compete with a VC backed startup that will use every legal, illegal, ethical and unethical trick in the book it can get away with to, to destroy its competitors.

Yes, and I think aspect of capitalism is under-discussed. The conventional narrative is that it doesn't matter how much wealth somebody else (or some other company) has. You can compete on your own merit.

But companies like Uber and other VC-backed "unicorns" show otherwise. They can afford to give away their product for free on the back of money that they didn't earn in any meaningful way. And it completely breaks the model.

>The key to achieving such things is... surprise surprise... treating your workers fairly and paying them well so they actually give a shit about their job

Easier said than done.

Not that I disagree, but business models like these are difficult in more developed countries. It's the same reason you will find middle class people in many less developed countries with domestic staff. The wealth divide between the middle class and poor is so extreme in places like India, that you can afford to charge your regular customers enough money to pay poor employees a "good" wage. "Good" in this case is of course very relative. Relative to many other poor people that have no job at all.

Indeed. Better economic opportunities and higher levels of general education make it hard to employ people and make money off this work at the same time. At least where I live in the US the gig platforms are staffed by people who can't hold down traditional employment for various reasons, and even with the below-minimum wage these services by and large do not really make money.

The flip side of this trend is the ubiquity of vending machines in Japan, which have the advantage of requiring no sales staff. This is very useful in a country where the labor force is shrinking and demand for low-skilled workers outstrips supply.

>The food delivery startups could achieve the same if they paid their delivery drivers fairly (at the moment most don't even make minimum wage - compared to the dabbawalas’ "good salary")

A quick data check suggests that a software engineer in Mumbai can easily make literally ten times this "good salary". Would you consider paying food delivery workers in London 10% of an software engineer's pay packet a "good salary"? Fair treatment?

Some crude calculations on my part suggest that it would be well below minimum wage in the UK. Is it possible that there might be more going on than "good salary"? Other commenters point out that there's a deep gulf in expected living conditions that enables such a low level of pay to be a "good salary".

Taken together, these suggest to me that this is a model that exploits extreme poverty and inequality. One that perhaps we should be glad cannot be replicated in many other places.

>The food delivery startups could achieve the same if they paid their delivery drivers fairly

They could, but they do everything to give the perception that food delivery is cheap. UberEats takes a 30% cut of the restaurant price. Most of them don't increase their prices in response. They really should consider it (and fortunately, some do), it devalues their offering (and restaurants already work with razor thin margins).

Same thing for their drivers salaries. Better to drive it into the ground than paying them a living wage and see a slower adoption as a result.

Not sure the quotes around engineers are needed. I have zero sympathy for most of these companies but it is still an engineering challenge to do food delivery at scale.

I looked at ordering some white castle for pick up today. There 5 dollar combination i normally Get was 7.50 plus convenience charges. Similarly, i looked at ordering delivery sushi and it was close to 50% more not including charges Friday. There’s not a lot of options here in Detroit, but, it seems like the platform charges are getting transferred to the customer.

> 12k rupees/month

> good wage

That's unlivable wage.

Also, those companies you have listed pay more.

I took the fact that it appears to be a good wage from the article; I am not familiar with the local market so I couldn't double-check that myself. However, they do appear to be thriving and providing a good service despite the local companies supposedly paying more so something doesn't add up. If the companies truly paid more then the whole system would breakdown as all their couriers would jump ship to the delivery startups.

Things don't change overnight. Your legacy code doesn't get rewritten in rust overnight even if rust provides actual significant benefit for you.

I will give it a few more years. People who work those jobs are also majorly illiterate and may not be willing to change as implied in the article.

Not OP, but just adding source

https://www.livemint.com/Companies/cYbdfsYk93HFhMuC0XgaNN/Sw...

For unskilled labour in India, that’s very good money. The average wage in India is around 350-400 INR per day worked

But Swiggy etc pay 25-50k

https://www.livemint.com/Companies/cYbdfsYk93HFhMuC0XgaNN/Sw...

I am curious, is there any reason why dabba people don't switch to Swiggy for job? If they'll make more there.

"The dabbawalas have deeper reasons for doing it. Serving their customers is like serving their god.”

It could be because they see their purpose as delivering food to people on time and it doesn't seem like the nascent services have figured out how to do that well at scale - thus they may make more over there but are less fulfilled in their life mission?

Swiggy and other delivery startups are more demanding in work hours (to make good money you need to do late nights weekends etc) and also needs you be able to drive a scooter . Also these startups need you to be able use their mobile app, maps and gps and find the customer these require literacy and few other skills Dabbawalas may not have readily.

Dabbawalas are more involved with transporting home cooked food to the worker. The worker leaves early in the morning and some time later the spouse will have a hot meal packed up. The dabbawala will come pick it up and aggregate orders going to common destinations, move it by train, etc. I presume Swiggy is only for restaurant cooked food.

Secondly the dabbawala jobs are more like a stable union job. You don't get the top money but everyone looks after each other. Of course with time customer preferences may change towards restaurant food. Or maybe workers start using plastic containers and microwaves.

For Mumbai?

Will need citation for that but regardless, my point is that it is still not a livable wage regardless of whether it is average or above average.

Secondly, the parent compared food delivery startups and companies - both of which pay more than 12k monthly assuming you work 8 hours per day.

They don't live in Mumbai usually and if they do in the slums. They live on the outskirts and commute by Mumbai Local.

In main areas of Mumbai that amount may not even fetch a small sized windowless room (no kitchen, or living space - just a room and a common washroom outside) and I am not even talking about "posh" Mumbai.

No the secret is to have a caste of workers with low expectations, lack of better opportunities, and high work ethics - grounding it in religion and making it a 'mission' instead of a job helps.

Dabbawalas are getting paid in good salary because they are a lot more efficient comparing to Uber drivers. From other reports / business review I am reading, there are about 200k customers with 5k Dabbawalas workers. That is avg 40 lunch deliveries per person. That is a LOT more efficient than Uber drivers.

The Dabbawalas is more efficient because: - built on top of public transit: dramatically lower cost, no need to pay for gas - have a pre set schedule and demand / not on-demand: enable huge supply chain optimization.

Plus, more rent-seeking profit opportunities! Engineers create a social credit rating system for the spouses making the meals!

Imaginary review: "Terrible cooking, too much salt. 2 stars (+1 star for being my wife)"

Missing info is

1. If these guys pay taxes or charge GST on food delivered.

2. How many units they deliver each day

3. What the cost of delivery of each unit and what's the value of the food content?

1. They don't make the food, they only transport it. Payment of taxes or GST on food delivered is between the food maker and the food receiver – dabbawala is not involved.

2. Article claims roughly 200,000 deliveries per day.

3a. Cost of each delivery is Rs. 800 per month / 24 working days = approx Rs. 33 (or less than half a dollar) per delivery. Normally the delivery involves a pick up as well (previous day's container is picked up along with today's delivery).

3b. Value of food content is irrelevant – it can be super expensive or dirt cheap, dabbawalas only care that it is packed in certain types of containers.