Comment by svat | Hacker News Reader

Comment by svat | Hacker News Reader

I wrote[1] this Wikipedia article; nice to see it quoted in the wild! Happy to answer questions if any.

One thing I'd like to point out is that far from an extinct form, there are Sanskrit poets even today who can compose verses subject to such constraints, and at least two of them[2] even do it “live” on stage—compose with any of the classical constraints, on any given topic!—without pen and paper, as part of a performance[3] interleaved with many other interruptions.

Edit: About the verse in the title, just now found a Facebook post[4] that points out it's part of at least 10 such two-consonant verses in that chapter (which also has verses subject to various other constraints).

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[1]: I was not the original creator (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shishupala_Vadha&...), but added most of the content (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shishupala_Vadha&...): 90% according to the “Who Wrote That” extension.

[2]: Shatavadhani Ganesh https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shatavadhani_Gane... and Shankar Rajaraman

[3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Avadhanam&oldid=9... – excerpts from a recording of such a performance are at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3GnorRNjXE though it's best experienced live!

[4]: https://www.facebook.com/sanskritsense/posts/438163406786809

There was a question asking if there exists a recording of the verse mentioned in the title; looks like the post got deleted (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23211366) while I was answering it. Anyway: the Facebook post mentioned above links to their Soundcloud reciting this verse in ominous tones with some modern music. I'm not aware of a more "traditional" recording of the Shishupala Vadha, but there is an earlier work by a different author (Bharavi) whose 15th chapter (canto) has similar constraints (https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Kir%C4%81t%C4%81r... as mentioned in the article), and there's a recording of that here: https://archive.org/details/kirAtArjunIya-mUlam-vedabhoomi.o... (extracted from a recording with commentary here: https://archive.org/details/KiratarjuneeyamByMahakaviBharavi...) — as you listen to the chapter you can easily tell when these two-consonant or one-consonant verses appear :-)

Thank you for your contributions to wikipedia.

Are you aware of free and open source recording of shlokas that a beginner can hear and learn to recite?

The Padhuka Sahasram of Vedanta Desikan aka KaviTarkika-Simhan has a section called Chitra Paddathi which paints pictures in words in a matrix of artistry in praise of the feet of the Lord. You can hear it being recited at (1) read the shlokas a t (2) and see the artistry at (3) Of note, the solution to the Knight's Tour can be seen at (4)

(1) Recital by Malola Kannan https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bj4sWsHC6Ck

(2) Follow the recital starting at shloka 911 here http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia/ebooks/vdesikan/rps/92.html

(3) See the artistry of the shlokas here http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia/ebooks/vdesikan/rps/chitra.h...

(4) The Knight's Tour solution here http://www.ibiblio.org/sripedia/ebooks/vdesikan/rps/knight.h...

Sorry, I'm not sure if I understood your question correctly. If you just mean recordings of any shlokas, then you can just type the name of your favourite one into, say, YouTube and find thousands of hours of listening material. Is that all you meant? For example, I listened to the entire Ramayana recited wonderfully clearly (at https://pravachanam.com/pravachanambrowselist2/296/37/230 but you can also find that recording elsewhere now). If you meant specifically a recording of such chitra-kāvya verses, see the other answer you got. Or if your question was specifically about licensing (not sure if that's what you meant by open source), search instead on archive.org; you'll still find lots of results.

I want to learn the shlokas from a priest verse by verse. Since all scriptures are out of copy right, it will be great if the priests who know how to utter the words correctly record it, people who don't access to priest are free to learn it. For example, M. S. Subbalaksmi's Vishnu Sahasranamam is very fast and Brahma is uttered as Bramha or Bramma sometimes. I am not trying to critique her work, I think it is great. It's just that it is very fast for a new student to grasp; a verse by verse reading from a priest would be very useful. Thank you for the resource you suggested, I will take a look.

Ah I see. About whether “Brahma” is pronounced as written or as “Bramha”, there is regional variation and difference of opinion even among the best scholars; recommended is to find a tradition and follow it. Overall M. S. Subbulakshmi's rendering may not be perfect but it's better than most, and if you can match it, it would be great. You can slow the playback if it's too fast; just tried it and at something like 0.7x speed it's still sounds fine while being slow enough. Anyway, you can look for recordings by people trained in Vedic recitation (not exactly same as priest…), like the Challakere brothers. Also, you may benefit from an actual class with feedback from teacher(s), etc; and Vyoma Labs (sanskritfromhome.in) have many "Learn to chant…" courses which are (incredibly!) free. Good luck!

When in India I was told there are even some rare families still raising their children with Sanskrit as their primary language. I think this spoken Sanskrit is however a bit different from the written version which might mirror Latin that might also have had a spoken and written version (and the former is dead).

Small remarks:

* I found the description on the 'drum' pattern difficult to understand, that might be a word understood in a particular way in your culture/region? * The introduction mentions the verse that can mean both apology or declaration of war, would be great to have this mentioned/translated too as one of the examples.

Thanks for an interesting article!

You're welcome!

* For Latin, Wikipedia gives a list of “ages” (Old Latin, Classical Latin, Late Latin, Medieval Latin, Renaissance Latin, New Latin, Contemporary Latin), with "Vulgar Latin" (Latin as spoken by the common non-elite people) and Ecclesiastical Latin (Latin as used in the Church) on the side. The main point is that, when Latin was still a spoken language within living memory, the speech of the people had already started to diverge, and that is Vulgar Latin. But when say Newton or Gauss or Erasmus or Spinoza wrote in Latin, or when George I spoke in Latin to his prime minister Robert Walpole (according to Wikipedia), they were using not Vulgar Latin but "correct" Latin; they had just learned it as part of their education. In a parallel to that, "spoken Sanskrit" of the common people evolved into various Prakrit languages and into many modern Indian languages, just as Latin evolved into the Romance languages. But the families where Sanskrit is spoken (usually as just one language among many) all involve "correct" Sanskrit; it's just that the parents have learned it and teach it to their children.

* Yes the "drum" pattern does not look like a drum to me either; it's just what the constraint is called :-) It's based on the strings around a certain kind of drum (possibly mṛdanga = mridangam); I've uploaded a few illustrations here https://imgur.com/a/8c6Sxet — they're from books/blogs; will try uploading one of them to Wikipedia under a fair-use license.

* About the chapter with two meanings: I didn't have a reference then, but I found one now and have added an example to the article! https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shishupala_Vadha&...

Thank you for commenting! I was looking for a performance somehwere, but couldn't find one.

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