Walmart Just Launched a Line of Backpacking Gear | Hacker News Reader

Walmart Just Launched a Line of Backpacking Gear

outsideonline.com

44 pointsstarpilot64 comments

Here is the link to the gear!

https://www.walmart.com/cp/lithic/9549605

Excited for this. All the major outdoor gear companies have made proper backpacking pretty hard to get into without dropping a grand or two on lightweight gear. Yeah, you can grab a Coleman tent for $50 that weighs 30lbs, but to truly backpack for multiple days you are looking for a 3-6lb tent that currently is anywhere from $300 to $800 depending on your quality preference.

I don't know where you shop, but my 4-ish pound backpacking tent was less that $100.

Edit: To clarify, I'm just saying that there is a middle ground between a cheap lead-weight tent and a several-hundred-dollars gearhead tent.

Yeah, the ALPS 1-person tent is 4 lb and $100 on Amazon. Similar stuff is on Aliexpress.

I think the significance is that Walmart is entering this field. This really could introduce new audiences to backpacking that normally don't even think of going into REI.

There are also quite a few places with a Walmart and no nearby REI. There are whole states without REI stores. If Walmart rolls these lines out to every store, that's a massive expansion of access.

To clarify, I typically backpack with 2-4 person tents and other people. Maybe my numbers are still off. Excited nonetheless.

REI garage sales are great too. Picked up some hiking boots for my kid for $30. Even as a scout he grew too fast to wear boots out. And a 2-person summer tent for $45 — someone had broken a pole linkage and returned it. I just drilled it out and threaded a piece of stock and now it works fine, though doesn’t fold up quite the same — so what.

Thank God. Let's just be honest here brands like the North face and others are horrifically overpriced for their typical gear. yeah I remember when Patagonia and North face were basically only used by expeditioners and they only sold top pulling line stuff made in the USA. The fact that it was made in America kind of explained the cost. but now they just make it all in cheap countries mark it up and hog the money.

At least now I can go out and get a mid-range backpacking set up without going completely broke.

L.L. Bean isn't quite as bad as Patagonia wrgt price point. Have you tried them?

I agree (see my comment about gear heads elsewhere in this thread), but a lot of the time you don’t need a lot of specialized gear, though weight can be a factor.

Though TBF I have a 30 yo Patagonia raincoat that’s sailed across the Atlantic twice, been above the arctic circle, the Australian outback, northern Canada, and along the PCT. it’s utterly faded but the zippers work fine, it has no tears, and it’s still waterproof. I ski in it and camp with it year round. I think I got my money’s worth on that one.

Relatedly: the current state of boots is horrific.

Have any recommendations on boots?

I have given up on the off the shelf boots. Best off the shelf boots I’ve found are some heavy leather Asolos you can get at REI (I hate those soft “hiking shoes” as they don’t provide the support you need with a heavy pack or for fording a river when you can’t see where you are stepping, etc). I had a cobbler disassemble them and put a plastic half-pipe-with-plate in the vertical portion behind my ankle/Achilles which gave greater stability. They were great boots — very comfortable, quite good performance — but after less than thousand miles or so the sole fell apart. Had the cobbler try to repair them but they weren’t the same — they weren’t designed to be resoled. Now I have my boots made by a guy in W.A. who does nothing else. They are solid and fit like a glove. Eminently repairable. You don’t want to spend this kind of money unless you expect to travel more than 750 miles a year in them though.

Older boots can be repurposed as jungle boots with a few careful stabs of your knife if you like long canoe trips. Regular hiking boots adjusted like this are better even than the Cabella jungle boots IMHO if you have rigorous portages.

I have done short (3-4 day) trips in places like Desolation Wilderness wearing Chaco sandals...but you couldn’t hike Mt Whitney and even in the lower sierras you need feet like leather. No ankle support so ultralight only.

For winter backpacking I have some off the shelf Columbia boots for snowshoeing. They are pretty warm. Those conditions are much less demanding on your feet and footgear than summer conditions. Don’t buy the crappy Bass winter boots: those are for standing briefly by your truck, not for long distance travel. OTOH if it’s really cold, and you’ll be on the ice, Traveling with dogs, go for mukluks.

My dog wears ruff ware vibram sole boots in summer and winter (they sell snow boots but I’ve not had good luck). Vibram soles, but last only about 5-600 miles. Wear with tennis socks and in winter, gaiters I made for him for the deep snow (he’s a large dog and weighs about the same as me).

Some outdoor gear is still made in the US, like some small ultralight backpacking tent brands (Tarptent); they also tend to have very strong warranties / repair services.

The last North Face jacket I bought was utter garbage.

It didn’t last two seasons before the main zipper and pocket zippers faded.

That put me off all the brands in the similar price range.

I’d now rather buy at the next bracket down and have twice, or more, the number of items.

Are you sure you received genuine product?

I purchased it from Anaconda here in Australia. Anaconda is owned by Spotlight Retail Group, Australia's largest privately-owned and operated family business.

I have no reason to believe Anaconda would intentionally stock counterfeit items.

But you do have a valid point.

By "faded" do you just mean the colour changed? I'm amazed that happens in two years - it might be worth contacting them about it because it seems extremely unusual (unless you are wore it in the sun for 2 years or washed it particularly often?)

The North Face has a pretty generous repair and replacement policy: https://thenorthface.com.au/content/Warranty_Policy.html. Perhaps not quite as good as the Patagonia warranty (https://www.patagonia.com.au/pages/ironclad-guarantee) but still good.

I meant to type “failed”, but must have been having a stroke while I typed the previous comment.

In that case they'd 100% fix or replace it.

REI’s “co-op” brand undercuts the big brand names, though only a bit. Probably same ballpark as Columbia.

See also: this $2,000 "Viathon" mountain bike -- a Walmart brand. Expensive for people who just want a bike to ride, but competitive with bikes that cost twice as much. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb-AJc3QL-Q

It's an interesting strategy. The high-end of a lot of hobbies are inflated beyond reason, and I think it's cool that they're taking a stab at that.

The people buying high end do care about the brand and reputation. They accept to pay inflated prices for a well known brand, but would not buy at a discounted price a retail store brand. Brand and reputation communicates quality.

I'm guessing that's more true for people buying high-end fashion than it is for those buying high-end hobbyist gear, as the latter are more likely to research products and put significant weight on performance rather than blindly trust a brand name.

I don’t get this. Is it ego or something? If you’re on a trail the brand name won’t keep you from cracking your skull any less than another.

No, but if they see that brand protecting the head of all the people they see eat shit in GoPro videos, or on heads in the Winter Olympics, then they don't (feel they) have to do the research to see if it's a trustworthy brand.

Obviously, this implied value gets taken too far on both sides.

It's the history behind the brand that's important.

Does that company have a history of building quality products? Do they support them when something breaks? What kind of reputation do they have?

When you buy a brand name product, you generally have a better idea what you're buying.

(Not to say there aren't some high quality generic products out there, but it takes a lot more time and research to find them. And sometimes it's just a gamble.)

Yes, it is ego. I was recently on a backpacking trip with a few of the most 'geared up' people I've ever met, sporting all top of the line gear and very proud of it - every single item was intentional and brand names and the long technical details of every item of clothing or gear was always mentioned. It's like almost any hobby or sport - some people will geek out and get very into the 'scene'. Walmart will provide a way for new people to dip a toe into the world of backcountry gear and some of those people will move up to the specialty brands.

The last thing I want many hours away from civilization is my gear to fail on me. Additionally, expensive outdoors brands come with much better warranties. Discounted retail store brands are often a false economy option.

It's the Harbor Freight strategy. Though I'm not sure Walmart can build the sort of positive reputation that Harbor Freight enjoys.

What's the Harbor Freight strategy?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harbor_Freight_Tools

From their logo "Quality tools and ridiculously low prices"

Seems they began selling on tools bought from bankrupt companies, and now act as a secondary channel for many "real" high end brands. (Ie they can sell overstock through this company without polluting their main market / brand)

I am going to guess they do more than just tools now.

They don't sell overstock anymore. They sell their own stuff. It's mostly Chinese import. But you always know what you're getting and quality ranges from alright to excellent.

thank you

Anecdotally, I've witnessed a wide range of quality signals from buyers of Walmart and Harbor Freight.

Like Amazon and fakes/harmful products, you only have to get it right over x% of the time (is it half?) or more, in order to profit, at their scale.

I've never had a fake from Harbor Freight. They source their own stuff.

That's...not what I said.

What you said is pretty unclear. Can you rephrase?

They do gravel bikes too: https://cyclingtips.com/2020/04/viathon-g-1-grx-600-gravel-b...

It's not really true that they are "competitive" with bikes costing twice as much (unless you mean you can ride pretty much as fast and have as much fun).

On the gravel bikes, the Viathon is $2298 for a carbon frame and GRX 600 groupset. Specialised make the Diverge Comp E5 for $2100 with a (lesser) aluminium frame and a mixed GRX 600/800 groupset (better)[1], or you can upgrade to a carbon framed Diverge (with a Sram group set, so not directly comparable) for $2500.

[1] https://www.specialized.com/us/en/diverge-comp-e5/p/175289

The first thing that came to my mind was Walmart's existing "Ozark Trail" brand of tents and outdoor equipment. I have a few of their insulated cups and water bottles and they're good value for the price.

I wonder why they decided to use new Lithic branding?

There’s some negative sentiment toward Ozark Trail among the set of people who have seen abandoned tents as far as the eye can see at the end of music festivals. Not sure if that’s common enough to lower the value of the brand.

That’s really disappointing to me. Does money just grow on trees for these people? What are their parents teaching them about respecting hard earned money? And respecting the environment. Are people raised to waste resources these days?

Arent we all? We have learned to think of ourselves as consumers, haven't we?

I’m specifically talking about a waste of a resource, in this case, the tent that was discarded after one use.

Presumably for segment differentiating. You can buy an inexpensive car camping bag or a more expensive, lighter one for a little backcountry camping.

Bigger question is why did Outside not pickup on the fact that this is just a rebranding of Ozark and call it for what it is. Disappointed as I have been a huge fan of Outside for a very long time

Looking quickly at the items, I confess I'm not sure why you would think this is merely a rebrand. The items do seem genuinely different. What have I missed?

OT looks a bit different and I suspect being phased out for Lithic. Here's the OT 1-person backpacking tent, which is on clearance: https://www.walmart.com/ip/Ozark-Trail-1-Person-Backpacking-...

Here's the Lithic version: https://www.walmart.com/ip/LITHIC-One-Person-Backpacking-Ten...

Lithic overall has a geometry similar to high-end tents like MSR, Big Agnes. It has better waterproofing and probably better poles than the OT. It actually comes with a footprint which is unusual. Reflective guylines are a really nice touch if you actually plan to backpack with it. It has a larger floor area and interior height than the OT, probably causing the added weight.

I bought their ultralight single person backpacking tent for $25 on clearance and it is surprisingly solid. It looks like a Chinese REI rip-off.

Edit* not part of their new line obviously but shows it's not all junk

I think this is exciting. I suspect the gear will be bass pro shop quality, not cabella’s, bit that’s ok, most people only take a few short trips and don’t need to spend a lot to have a really fun time.

Backpacking, like many such activities, has a significant gearhead contingent, but I like to bring as little gear as possible, and as little “pro” gear as I can get away with (some things though, like my stove, are specific). But say for winter camping I haul extra gear around in a Walmart deer sled and it’s great.

Cabela's and bass pro share the same owners for a few years now.

Toyota and Lexus share the same owners, but one is still more "premium"

Ah, cool, so the tent weatherproofing will be the same, but the zipper and plastic hooks will feel and work nicer on the more expensive branded one? ;D

It’s all about balance. You can get good gear and bad gear anywhere. The Bass stuff is cheaper and won’t last as long but so what (we’re talking camping gear and clothes; dunno about guns, boats, fishing gear as that stuff isn’t my thing). And at bass you can pick up matches, an MSR stove (though not the full range) and Good useful gear. So that’s their target. And frankly who cares if your summer tent doesn’t work? Half the time I leave it at home anyway. Actually I’m wearing a bass shirt right now — “red bird” or whatever their house brand is. Super comfortable, but I wouldn’t wear it in the back country.

But an expedition tent: I care a lot, and they don’t carry that.

> significant gearhead contingent, but I like to bring as little gear as possible

The minimalist contingent is even more fanatical than the gearhead contingent.

Was going to say this. Seems like the more pro folks go with less and improvise more.

A bit of knowledge someone dropped on me once: “we carry our fears.” E.g. I haul lots of water because I hate dehydration.

My taste for minimalism isn’t the extreme ultralight position (that’s often another gear odyssey) but rather: can I take something I already own, or use something I’ve already packed?

But admittedly I don’t carry a gps or spot or anything like that, just topos and compass, so i have a dose of the pretentious minimalism as well.

I wonder how much of those sales are from their employees who can't afford a place to live

I hope this doesn't equate to 'single-use' or 'disposable' gear.

It's like shops that are allowed to open are taking advantage of the lockdown to take the business of those compelled to stay shut.

Why wouldn’t they take advantage of it?

How often does the government decide to unilaterally restructure the market in one group’s favor?

To answer your second question, surprisingly often! Usually the “one group” is the incumbent.

A line like this has been in the makings long enough that the only real detail was release date. Additionally, as the article notes, few of the people who go to Walmart for camping gear are likely to do so in lieu of REI or similar.

You're absolutely right, and shops that are allowed to operate are able to take advantage of it over shops that aren't. This seems like it might not be a good example, though. Perhaps I've missed something.

Surprised no one is talking about how this is Walmart's version of AmazonBasics...

Here are my thoughts: It's interesting to see big online retailers make their own cheap brands to monopolize their sales

I didn't see this in the comments but Walmart bought Moosejaw a few years ago.

I thought it would be fun to share my backpacking checklist from 1974. (Forgive the code formatting, on mobile you can drag left/right to see it.)

  CLOTHING
    Boots - waterproofed [1]
    3 sets socks
    String shirt [2]
    Long sleeved cotton shirt
    Wool shirt
    Shorts
    Long pants
    Gaiters [3]
    Handkerchiefs
    Down vest
    Windbreaker
    Poncho
    Rain chaps
    Mittens - inner/outer
    Scarves
    Balaclava [4]
    Hat
    Stephenson Warmlite No-Sweat Shirt [5]
    Walking stick [6]
    Backpack
    For the trip home:
      Clean underpants, pants, shirt, socks
      
  CAMP
    Sleeping bag and stuffsack
    Mosquito netting
    Foam pad
    Ground sheet
    Tarp
    Visklamps/stakes [7]
    Nylon cord 50'
    Stove kit (stove, pot lid, lighter, bag)
      Fuel can
      Fuel pellets
      Cleaning wire
      Asbestos pad (!!)
      Fill and test stove and lighter
    Flashlight
    Knife - sharpened
    Sharpening stone
    Clothespins
    Paper towels
    Plastic bags
    Toilet paper
    Trowel
    Canteen
    Spoon
    Washcloth
    Toothbrush/floss
    Soap
    Salt/pepper shakers
    
  FIRST AID
    Moleskin/foam
    Rubbing alcohol
    Tweezers
    Gauze pads
    Gauze bandage
    Triangular bandage
    ACE bandage
    Band-Aids
    Adhesive tape
    Nail clippers
    Chapstick
    Glacier cream
    Bug repellent!
    Cotton balls
    Salt tablets
    First aid book
    Snakebite kit

  EMERGENCY/REPAIR
    Matchsafe
    Flint stick
    Mirror
    Whistle
    Ripstop tape
    Spare batteries/flashlight bulbs
    Rubber bands
    Velcro
    Sewing kit/thimble
    Clevis pins
    Razor blade
    Wire
    Cord clamps
    Phone change
    Halazone [8]
    Space blanket [9]

[1] Waterproofing involved coating the boots with wax and putting them in the oven. What a mess!

[2] A mesh t-shirt, great for layering: https://www.google.com/search?q=string+shirt&tbm=isch

[3] Covers the gap between long pants and shoes: https://www.google.com/search?q=gaiters&tbm=isch

[4] Not the dessert: https://www.google.com/search?q=balaclava&tbm=isch

[5] NSFW for "naturist" style nudity: https://www.outinunder.com/sites/default/files/Warmlite%20Ca...

[6] The best walking stick is the one you cut from a fallen tree with the saw in your Swiss Army knife. I still have mine!

[7] I had to look this up to remember what they were: https://www.google.com/search?q=visklamps&tbm=isch

[8] Had to look up this one too: https://www.google.com/search?q=halazone&tbm=isch

[9] Space blanket: https://www.google.com/search?q=space+blanket&tbm=isch

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