Podcasts are my new Wikipedia
lnns.co
lnns.co
I don't see how the use cases of podcasts and Wikipedia, as described, are at all similar. For "informal information", someone mentions a topic and I look for it in Wikipedia. This takes me a few seconds, more if I want to delve a bit deeper. How would that work for podcasts? Google a podcast on $TOPIC, pick one that looks (or is it "sounds"?) promising, then fast forward it until someone mentions what it is in few words? I understand an in-depth, long-winded description of $TOPIC in a podcast, but that's very different from quickly looking in Wikipedia to get the gist of it.
So no, podcasts cannot be my new Wikipedia, even if I tolerated audio/video explanations better than I do.
Going back about a dozen years ago if I wanted to watch a video to get some kind of information out of it, I generally found a way to load it up into QuickTime Player and play it back at 2x or 3x.
Nowadays I listen to too many podcasts because two pieces of technology fixed that for me: truly wireless headphones, AirPods originally, Powerbeats Pro presently, and podcast players with variable audio acceleration, namely Overcast, but I think Castro can do it too, and I’m sure there’s equivalents out there in Android. Overcast has two major quality of life improvements that make talk shows not just tolerable, but if you like the speakers, enjoyable. It decreases the playback time by about 40% for me using a combination of a fixed speed adjustment and Smart Speed, and it evens out the voice volume of the speakers so if someone has a bad mic or speaks softly, I can hear what the hell they’re saying.
Without either of these, I wouldn’t be able to tolerate podcasts as a format at all. Even now I favor podcasts that still have shorter base runtimes, Overcast is going to decrease the length regardless, but I don’t want to listen to something for more than 35 minutes, if that.
There’s a lot of good interviews, talk shows, news podcasts and so on that I find superior than the crap I would find on the web, I can easily skip past ads, and I can relax be play a game while the podcast runs more or less in the background. There’s plenty I just wouldn’t hear about or learn about simply because it really isn’t on the web. It might be in a book somewhere, but hearing someone explain their position on this or that or another thing in their own voice in a conversational format is much more enjoyable to me than following their writing and piecing their positions together.
Now you might give this all a try and find you still don’t care for podcasts, or maybe you already did. That’s fine, also fine if you’re not interested at all. Just figured I would give my 2¢ as someone who previously thought along the same lines as you about audio/video mediums. Text has a myriad of advantage over audio and video, but I’m finding audio and video have some advantages as well over text. Having technology available to make it a fair bit less miserable and time consuming an experience was part of what helped me realize that.
My point is that this isn't at all a replacement for Wikipedia. Even the time investment is wildly different between the two.
I mean, both get you places and have wheels.
Of course, I don't like podcasts so that alone makes Wikipedia better for me, but this is not what I was arguing.
I was arguing podcasts can never be a replacement for Wikipedia.
I absolutely can't listen to any podcasts or audiobooks while working, I will simply tune out all the noise and focus all of my attention on the task at hand. Then the podcast simply turns into background voices that I don't listen to (I also easily tune out any nearby conversations in open office settings). By the time I'm done with my task, I have already lost too much of the conversation so might as well just stop listening. The good thing is that any noise doesn't hurt my productivity, because it just bypasses me completely.
I listen to audiobooks while doing the dishes, for example. But coding takes too much cognitive load for me to multitask. I even find music distracting when trying to think deeply about a problem.
For non-audio, I use EverNote heavily.
These days, I use a traditional index card system combined with a spaced-repetition flashcard system. Each concept that I feel like collecting information about has a small stack of cards that starts with a 1- or 2-sentence definition, in case I’m using a term slightly differently from other people. Below that are cards that represent quotes, notes, summaries, and recommended reading on that topic.
The flash card deck is to make sure I know what things exist, and what words are used in the literature to refer to abstract things. If I need more detail than I can remember, those keywords will get me to a relevant wikipedia page, at least.
To take a concrete example, the April 2020 issue of Smithsonian has a feature about a tidal power generation startup. I filed that under “sustainable power generation”, as you might expect. I also filed it under “Island communities” because of only a single sentence I found in the article: The startup’s target market is small- or medium-sized islands that are powered by imported diesel fuel.
What I've personally found is it's way too cumbersome to pull the phone out of your pocket, unlock it, press the "Add Note" button (assuming the Now Playing screen is already showing, otherwise another click for that), type in your notes, and click save...and probably rewind 15 seconds because you lost track of the conversation.
But now that I write this out I realize a Siri shortcut could be apt here.
Happy to get involved if you take the above route
I feel like I should mumble something about regression to oral tradition from literate society but hey.
Important aspect is that it faster to produce then writing.
> Lectures can be a great adjunct to study but it's just not the same thing.
Popular good podcasts are not like lectures. They tend to have less information per minute and light side chats where your brain rests. They can be consumed while cleaning, cooking or going somewhere and paying reasonable amount of attention to surrounding environment. You can not do it with lecture (I tried).
You are still learning, much more then if not listening at all, but at smaller pace then expected from lecture and it requires less attention.
I don't think that's obvious at all. Learning is an active process. People listening to podcasts while doing work aren't going to actually develop some skill, they're just passively listening to some facts being thrown at them, much of it they probably won't even retain, let alone productively integrate.
You can listen to thousands of hours of guitar playing podcasts, it won't really help you play the guitar. Or you could listen to programming podcasts, but without ever writing a line of code you'd not be a any good as a programmer.
And yes, I have some idea about how much I retained from podcasts I listened to. Seriously, remembering facts is also form of knowing, it beats up not remembering facts. It is not "just", many times it is the thing to go after when learning.
Unless it's trivia and current knowledge type stuff.
[1] Never mind that in order to produce quality audio, you need to have written... Your script. Which is a lot harder than writing something readable.
Another podcast I've learned a lot from is the Ottoman History Podcast (not to be confused with The History of the Ottoman Empire podcast). It often has episodes where academic historians are interviewing other academic historians about their areas of research. So you'll have a whole episode where a historian talks about their research into mining communities in the late Ottoman Empire, for instance.
For something a bit lighter, the Tides of History podcast is worth a listen. It's an academic historian who takes a look at various historical events.
Nota bene: A great lecture is worth a lot. But a great text that delivers the same message is worth a lot more.
That being said, one factor you might be discounting is that producing 1 hour of quality audio information takes much less time than producing a quality 1 hour read. There are a lot of people who are great conversationalists, but not great writers.
I'm not sure I agree. For example, I find myself fast-forwarding Coursera videos because the teachers just don't understand where it makes sense to slow the pace or where to pick it up. I find myself skipping huge parts of YouTube videos (my interest is hobby stuff) because the author just doesn't understand I already understood the idea, the take is getting boring (or just not showing the interesting stuff), and they should just cut ahead.
I find producing mediocre audio/video is easy. But quality audio/video is as hard as quality text, if not harder.
I’m not making any statement on the average quality of audiovisual content, just the barrier to entry for the production of that content.
FWIW I do a lot of skipping and fast replaying too. My podcasts are usually around 2.5x. Most people perform-talk way too slow. If I weren’t able to listen that quickly while doing dishes or similar, I’d normally prefer to read.
I used to listen to a number of podcasts regularly, but I would repeatedly notice that I barely remembered what the key points were. In the end, I cut down my consumption more and more, and only listen to episodes that I specifically find interesting, and only when I have the time and mental resources to really listen to them.
Regarding walking your dog: that's true. Walking around is a good way to retain information. That's explained on Moonwalking With Einstein
It does, and I've 'read' 10s of millions of words like this in the past year. I read long-form articles, nonfiction books, and fiction books like this. (The one thing I don't read like this is formatting-intensive PDFs, such as many text books, and that mainly comes down to limitations of my current setup.)
For content on the web I use either firefox's reader mode, which has TTS, or emacs' eww browser with the read-aloud script. For ebooks, I use nov.el and read-aloud. Either allows me to seamlessly switch between visual reading and listening to TTS. This make binge reading easy since I can avoid eye fatigue.
Incidentally, I think a lot of people dismiss TTS after trying it briefly because they underestimate neuroplasticity. Normally sighted people can become very proficient at listening to TTS at high speeds, but for some reason I've seen a lot of people assume only blind people can become accustomed to it. Once you become accustomed to it, the 'robotic' nature of the voice evaporates and it becomes as easy and intuitive as riding a bike.
As a related issue: I just don't understand the audiobook phenomenon. I'm clearly the outsider here. I enjoy reading words, not having them read to me.
> Upside, audio you can consume while doing other things
which certainly makes sense. While I haven't done so, I could listen to a book while driving, cooking, housecleaning, etc. Reading a book requires me to do nothing else in the mean time.
I listen to a lot of podcasts about random topics while doing yardwork and (pre-pandemic) commuting. I find that I remember these podcasts rather clearly compared to reading articles, and I find that they "contextualize" well with my existing knowledge.
For instance, I recall a number of details from Dan Carlin's WWI podcast "Blueprint for Armageddon" because I was mulching the garden beds with 15yds of top dressing while listening to the series last year.
I don't know if the improved retention is due to the narrative/conversational style of podcasts, the "memory palace" effect of doing something mindless at the same time, or some other cognitive difference in spoken vs read information.
I’ve actually collected quite a large number of podcasts that hit my sweet spot of being just interesting enough to engage my attention but not interesting enough to keep me awake.
There are too many occurrences of reading anonymous text that can interpreted multiple ways without enough context to make it clear what is meant. If you attached a speaker to the same context; with intonation, character and a reliable history of quirks it becomes trivial to see what they meant.
People tend to use simple language when talking to another human so you're not always chasing a rabbit hole of terms that can be summarized for the sake of time in a podcast.
Disclosure: I work on PN on the tech side.
which means you can express yourself less defensively and without having to worry about the worst possible interpretation of whatever you say.
There is a nice connection shared between the two in that RSS and Wikipedia are both strongly associated with Aaron Swartz, though that's never addressed in the article.
For me they're by no means a replacement for written information, though. They're complementary. They fulfil a different purpose.
Podcasts: bring people of knowledge to talk about subjects.
Wikipedia: Brings the end result of all the talking to one written place.
There are some great podcasts out there, but the standards are much higher than for writing and it's way harder to get noticed if you aren't already known for something else[0].
[0]: I mean, you can get noticed for courting controversy or being super political or something, but that is entertainment.
The exception is stuff I have no idea about. Then all that coverage is useful. But for (I assume) some on HN, who are naturally curious and have a surface-level understanding of most topics, that 5-10 minutes of time out of a 25-minute podcast (with 2 minutes of ads each at the front and back) means you only get to scratch at the next level deeper without actually getting into any details, which doesn't seem worth the time when there are still Wikipedia articles about it.
You could be listening, then have a question, ask the computer, have it start up a mini-podcast at the segment that answers, then say "go back" and keep running the original.
But it does sound promising as an exploratory tool if you understand that the Qs will be basic and the As straightforward.
If you can learn that way, great. My experience though is that a lot of these tasks are high thinking (and high-risk) tasks. Config changes can cause production outages. It's easy to miss something in refactoring and introduce a bug. The point of writing throwaway code to test new technology isn't the code, it's the understanding that comes with it.
Learning can't be easy, that's the point of learning, and often the best way to learn is to experience and test by yourself, which is clearly the opposite of listening to podcasts.
Also I do find that the content in podcast is almost always the same and only less than 5% of the talk is actually interesting
As for people who explains that they are as much productive when coding only than coding and listening podcast at the same time, this is probably wrong, humans are not very good at doing two things at the same time
I have turned HN into a personal data-oriented wikipedia and I want to test consuming the resulting feed through audio (like a npr for data-based facts) [0].
If some of you would like to take part into the experiment, leave a comment below !
What I hate is that I listen to audiobooks and podcasts all the time.
And no car or portable audio device acknowledges this fact.
Why doesn't anyone do skip-back and skip-forward and pause and where-i-am-in-the-program-robustly ???
I need dedicated buttons for skip-back/forward and pause. I need my place to be saved, maybe the last 5 places.
sheesh.
Podcast Republic has proved reasonably un-sucky.
the audible reader repurposes back to back 15 seconds for example.
what I was wondering about though was why don't (for example) bluetooth headphone manufacturers have a prominent, dedicated skip back or skip forward button?
I doubt this person is producing good code or learning anything from the podcast.
I used to listen to podcasts on public transit, but somewhere along the way I stopped and haven't picked up the habit again.
I don't have a commute... and, at the gym, again, I listen to music.
I'm running long distances these days, but I prefer to listen to nothing when running, esp since I run with my partner.
I noticed that my natural speaking pace increased so much that it was confusing people who are used to slower cadences and listening to others who speak at a natural pace was grating to me.
Switching to 1x speed has helped me slow down a bit and digest as I go instead of racing through everything.
> Of course, I use AirPods to listen to podcasts!
Of course, you would mention that!
I use http://podcasttranscribe.com for converting it to text.
(though it can get a bit unstable at times…)