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Comment by wolfgke | Hacker News Reader

> I agree though about the big difference between the German and US management. I have a close friend that works at the regional Lidl HQ and she got reprimanded just after being hired for having used the singular "you" (less formal) instead of the plural "you" (I'm not sure how it translates into German) when addressing herself to her bosses on the company's hallways

Using "du" instead of "Sie" for adressing people can be a very serious issue. If you do this to a policeman, for example, you can be fined by typically 600 € in Germany (source: https://www.bussgeldkatalog.org/beamtenbeleidigung/). To give an analogue in the English language: you wouldn't address your boss with "yo nigga". So I believe the reprimand was rather rightfully.

A rule in the German language is: in doubt, use the more formal language register. The "default language register" in German is typically "one register more formal" than the "default language register" in English.

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Using the informal "du" over "Sie" is not anywhere near using the n-word in english. Raising your outstretched hand just above head hight to greet someone would be, though.

Overall, using "du" is acceptable in 90% of social interactions. It's only when talking to people in higher positions or as a courtesy to elderly / unfamiliar people.

>Overall, using "du" is acceptable in 90% of social interactions. It's only when talking to people in higher positions or as a courtesy to elderly / unfamiliar people.

That is pretty much exactly how nigga is used.

I don't think there is a mapping to this in English. I've studied some Spanish and German - You learn about the various verb and pronoun forms based on informal and formal "you". This is a part of the core language, the spec, so to speak.

In English, there is no spec for different levels of formality. There is no universally documented way to being less courteous to bosses and policemen. Saying "sup dude" or "how's it going" is part of the American standard library, not the language.

And to your point directly, "nigga" is incredibly informal and casual, and would never be something anyone (much less a non-native speaker) should ever use unless they know what they are doing. And usually, they should be black, too.

Well it just so happens I am black and I've been using the word most of my life.

Nigga is just "bro" or "dude" but exclusively used among black/minority communities. I realize the word nigga is A Big Deal for white people but really in our community it is used as casually as the word "like" in any given sentence. Interestingly I have even used it with black bosses before in a joking casual way.

If you're black, you're probalby speaking a particular vernacular that's at least slightly different from standard American english.

You're ignoring the fact that a non-negligible percentage of black people don't want to be called any version of "nigga" by anybody, including other black people.

The same is not even remotely true of bro or dude

You could say that for any informal familiar expression that makes the recipient bristle.

It's so common people joke about it "don't call me dude, bro | don't call me bro, pal" etc etc

No, you couldn't.

As a black person among black people? Can, have and will continue to.

Ok, cool. Good luck with that

When I was learning German I read somewhere that English used to have different forms for "you" just like German. Which wouldn't be weird since the languages are closely related.

Yes, in English we fully adopted the formal which is "You" for both formal / informal speech. The familiar / informal was "Thou" - which is a bit weird because now we think of "Thou" as being a bit formal because it is so old-fashioned.

> Overall, using "du" is acceptable in 90% of social interactions.

This holds for private life. In professional life (except for IT industry and design industry; both are much more casual in the interaction style), it is rather "Sie" is acceptable in 90% of social interactions.

> To give an analogue in the English language: you wouldn't address your boss with "yo n"

Not even close, not even close. Why would you even write this? This must be a dog whistle.

Edit: that link you posted justs lists the €600 as "this happened once and depends on income of offender", also there is no source.

In addition, the intro paragraph says

> Es gibt jedoch bei Beleidigung keinen „Bußgeldkatalog“. Vor Gericht wird der Straftatbestand der Beleidigung verurteilt.

which translates to there is no schedule of penalties but it all depends on the statutory offence. So my understanding is there was a criminal offence that included an insult (saying "Du") which was mentioned in the report but not the cause for the fine in the first place.

> The "default language register" in German is typically "one register more formal" than the "default language register" in English.

Fun offtopic fact: The default register in English is actually more formal than most people realise. English had "thou" as the informal second person, and "you" as the more formal variant, but "thou" died out, leaving only the formal register. Curiously enough, Brazilian Portuguese underwent the exact same phenomenon, so they use "você" informally, whereas European Portuguese uses it as the formal second person.

Thanks for this clarification, I was completely unaware of the English part and curious about the Spanish part. <3

I'm French Canadian and that sounds insane.

In France, there's a soft tendency to use the plural you ("vous") a lot more because of the more rigid French class system. In Quebec it's seen as a snobby thing to do due to the more working ass culture.

That said, in neither country would anyone ever get a monetary fine for using one over the other. That's crazytown

I'm French French, we just think you and Walloons are rednecks with no education, see you ;)

I'm married to a frog, and they really do believe the quebecois are their poor, dumb, country cousins.

We had both a French exchange student and Quebecois exchange student in high school, he would frequently do a french impersonation of something akin to the Beverly Hillbillies and make the Quebecois girl cry. Being a town of rednecks ourselves everyone thought it was wonderful.

what is "ass culture"?

Howcome the German Apple store are using “du” all over the place?

Are they not well advised by their localization partners?

It's part of the brand, that advertisements which target young people / children, or else want to appear "cool", use the informal way of address.

That is true.

Additionally, this is a clear signalling that Apple targets consumers and not companies. German Apple haters scoff that this informal addressing in Apple's commercials is a clear admission that Apple's products are not suitable for doing serious work.

Such kind of informal addressing in advertizing is a very double-edged sword: Some companies (besides Apple also Ikea) use this kind of advertizing to brand themselves as hip and informal while many Germans consider this as "cheap ingratiation" [billige Anbiederung].

I am sure that this kind of advertizing made it much harder for Apple's sales department to sell to big companies.

Something funny that I noticed is that German PC gaming magazines are now saying "Sie" to their readers. I guess it makes sense - most of them are adults and some of them not even very young adults these days.

Why "now"? I used to read the PC Games a decently long time ago and it was always "Sie". Same with the PC Action and Computer Bild Spiele. No clue about the Gamestar but those were basically the relevant PC gaming magazines.

You may be right, I have not been paying attention for a long time.

It's a creative and family brand, so they adopt the same strategy as Ikea in Germany (also going for "du" everywhere).

Such brands rather risk being mistaken for a family member than for an insurance salesman.

> To give an analogue in the English language: you wouldn't address your boss with "yo nigga".

Are you crazy? This is not anywhere close to saying "du".

English has many faults, but I am proud of our limited number of cases and (standard) conjugations.

It must be taught since it's a part of the language, but I almost wish non-native German students could skip the "du" tense entirely, if it's that much of a faux pas to use it in the wrong scenario.

So far Duolingo has always taught me to use du, and never Sie...

Duolingo is a toy for getting a passing familiarity with a language. If you really want to learn it you need to take classes with a real human tutor

Which is exactly what I did coming out of undergrad University here in the US. I started work and then for fun I went and formally studied German at a local college, taught by a native speaker born in Köln. I was educated to use Sie out of respect and only use du with close friends, children, and only when instructed by co-workers and other associates. In my travels I have had many discussions in German and have not once been repremanded, only on occasion told I am fine to use the informal form.

somehow I feel like these two examples are not equivalent...

Take that n-word out you savage. You don't greet Germans with "Heil Hitler" or any middle-eastener with "Wallah, was los Kanacke?" to be informal.

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