The Whittling Part Of the Brain | Hacker News Reader

The Whittling Part Of the Brain

jeff-vogel.blogspot.com

90 pointshyramgraff23 comments

"I have found that, in general, our brains our smarter than we are. They want what they want, and if my brain wants to spend a while in front of a computer screen stabbing orcs, who am I to tell it it shouldn’t?"

I have several problems with this statement, starting with the fact that it was derived from a rationalization of the author's own habits, not a meaningful empirical observation.

Further, this is a formula for addiction. Games, porn, gambling, food cravings and drugs are all similar in that they self-enforce a habit through perceived short-term rewards.

Self-discipline is what allows one to accomplish goals. And, it means adapting your brain so that it can supress these hormone driven urges and take action that measurably moves your progress towards a rationally derived goal.

I'm all about some R&R, and fun / entertainment / addictions all have their place. Personally, I become a gamer for about 1 month every 2 years. I even think this author probably has more self-disciplne than he lets on judging by his writing and the history of games he has created. However, the message this article conveys is destructive.

Rationality and self-discipline use a different part of your brain than cravings for short-term rewards. Before you rationalize a time wasting habit, make sure you have adapted your mind to have the self-discipline to switch back and forth. Some people with particularly addition-oriented genetics really should fully abstain from mind-whittling activities if they want to accomplish anything in their life.

My point of view also assumes you are someone who wants to accomplish some substantial goal(s) in your lifetime. If you choose to live a lifestyle of fun / bliss, by all means, whittle away..

The takeaway for me wasn't so much that he was trying to rationalize wasting time instead of being productive, but rather that we all do waste time sometimes one way or another and that playing games isn't a "bad" way of wasting time.

I would agree with you if not for the last 2 paragraphs. Combine the quote I referenced above with "it's good and healthy and productive for us to like to play computer games".

Its just a reckless way to say 'we all waste time..' - not without making the distinction of the need for self-discipline and noting that there are some people that are very prone to addiction. I have an extended family member who's life outside of games has been completely destroyed by a sustained addiction to video games. He has stated repeatedly that he would rather be dead than give up gaming.

This is a real problem for a percentage of the population, and that percentage is increasing as video games are being engineered to be more and more addictive.

The whole "who am I to tell my brain otherwise" seemed to meant to be tongue-in-cheek, and you kinda sound like you're twisting that to try to push your agenda... (no offense intended, I do think addictions in general are bad).

FWIW, just to put things into a bit of perspective, I recall reading some stats saying that the average american spends something like 5 hours per day in front of a TV. (And numbers for, say, surfing the web during work hours weren't particularly exemplary either.)

Regarding social withdrawal, and things like hikikomori (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hikikomori), perhaps the issue isn't so much of self-discipline, but one of social environment, e.g surely such gamers must develop above average game playing skills, but they might not want to put similar effort into real life challenges because of fear of the unknown, or out of spite of parental/social pressure, etc.

The argument that "the brain knows better" seems very weak. The brain also wants people to over consume fast food, reward itself with alcohol and drugs, and several other things which obviously aren't rewarding in the context of modern society.

Right, I second that. Also, I used to "take breaks" by playing games or putzing around on the internet, until I realized that it doesn't actually help me feel relaxed and energized. But stretching, walking around, getting a cup of tea, and most other things in meatspace get me ready to go back to work.

Im always puzzled by the superiority complex people harbour about their 'traditional' pasttimes, especially reading newspapers, watching the 6 o'clock news as if it's important, watching wildlife documentaries, going for runs, etc.

Anyway, in one of those half asleep dazes the other day, I swear I caught my brain 'compiling' or 'defragging' or something. I could feel my eyes doing REM, and I could see or sense a whole lot of information I'd been studying being chunked, parsed and filed away in a more appropriate part of memory. Of course, that itself was probably just a dream...

> I swear I caught my brain 'compiling' or 'defragging' or something.

That might be your brain telling you to switch to a task that doesn't involve one of those activities for a day or two. :P

In college I used to have dreams about differential equations all the time. I remember one in particular about dispersion relations and non-linear responses to oscillations that wound up with me realizing that the forcing function was a fire alarm and waking up.

I resent the suggestion that whittling is not productive. I've made utensils in the past while in the mountains when I forgot my fork or spoon.

In my neck of the woods, the common word for making something out of wood is "carving." "Whittling" generally means destruction of a piece of wood with a knife.

The only use I've seen for it is making trinkets (paper knife anyone) out of wood. Like carving but less refined, only using ones general duty knife not carving tools (chisels, etc.). Like scrimshaw but using wood only and not spending so much time and care.

Whittling sounds like an evolutionary advantage. Imagine if humans hated to whittle; they would hate spending time collecting little things for a big reward. This could be as simple as collecting root vegetables to feed a stoneage family or creating a arrowhead. To me it seems whittling was an important part of evolving to where we are today. Small progress/steps to lead up to something great.

Sure, but the neurobiology of whittling is the polar opposite what we see in gamers. I speak as a doctor, kid who bought his own nintendo (back in the early 90s) and still proud owner of my original cub scout pocket knife.

I don't buy it. As far as I can tell the this thing Jeff calls Whittling is simply energy preservation behavior. Brains take up 30% of your overall energy consumption. Thinking has a relatively high energy cost to it and people are hardwired to prefer limiting their energy expenditure that does not generate a return (wage, food, etc).

I'm wondering if it's ever been shown that doing something mentally difficult consumes more energy than doing something where the brain is active but that isn't perceived as difficult?

Another explanation could be that the precursor to grinding in EQ is the urge to do things like searching for edible plants or animal tracks, carving tools, cleaning the home, and other things which have obvious evolutionary benefit.

Good question. As repetition sets in, more of the task is probably moved to the muscle memory part of the brain, but this does not necessitate a lower energy consumption.

The brain consumes more sugar when it's thinking harder. Before functional MRIs were invented, brain imaging required injecting irradiated glucose and scanning for radioactivity in the brain. Tasks requiring attention and self-discipline deplete glucose, and people demonstrably have higher vigilance for repetitive attention-heavy tasks when they've been injected with sugar.

This has been known to science for at least a century. The slightest glimpse at Wikipedia would have sufficed.

> people demonstrably have higher vigilance for repetitive attention-heavy tasks when they've been injected with sugar

That's not at all the same as saying that more difficult tasks actually consume more sugar, any more than programming must consume caffeine because coffee makes some people more focused on it.

Meanwhile, in reality, where evidence extends further than whatever I happen to mention, it does deplete glucose.

I don't know why you need to be rude and condescending. I don't know much about these things, but cursory research shows that these are at least good questions: http://www.epjournal.net/filestore/ep08244259.pdf

"It does deplete glucose" seems to be in question, doesn't it?

It looks like you are mostly agreeing with Jeff.

The different is that Jeff gives an argument for why somone would whittle instead of just lazing like a lion or a dog does. Whittling is (slightly) more rewarding, but sleeping is more energy efficient.

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