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Comment by thiht | Hacker News Reader

Why is it that on HN when somebody posts a link to a cool project, the top comment is systematically something like "here's an alternative"? Can we just talk about the posted link instead of just stealing the light?

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> instead of just stealing the light?

because HN isn't a place to merely advertise a product to gain traction and marketing. These alternatives and comments on other competitors shed light on the entire eco system, and prevent astroturfing as well as group think. It may even widen somebody's lack of knowledge.

HN isn't a place to merely advertise a product to gain traction and marketing

Today I learned.

Congratulations! Now you'll enjoy HN more!

There's nuance in that. HN is absolutely a mere marketing channel for (current) YC companies. The irony.

The irony.

Is it, though? I feel like lately you could ask five different people what HN “is” and get ten different answers.

Just ask dang :) Oh btw I meant YC founders don't use HN other than for marketing..

Personally I think this isn't a good way to look at it. Nothing exists in a void and to contextualize things, it's often useful to compare it to other similar things. In the startup world, it's often explained in the vein of "Uber for X" type of companies. Since Graphviz is one of the oldest and most widely used pieces of software in this space it makes sense to compare any new developments against it.

Oh don't get me wrong, comparisons are good. This is not a comparison though, it's a redirection, and this is very rude.

It seems more like a comparison to me, although not a very objective one.

I disagree.

Either the OP shared because they found a useful tool and wanted others to be able to know too, in which case sharing another related tool is in the spirit of what OP intended.

Or, OP wanted to use HN as a sales platform to pitch their work. In this case, sorry pal but HN is not your personal marketing megaphone. You want to put something out into the public here, you should expect it to be scrutinized and compared against alternatives. IMO, HN as a platform should put readers first, not authors.

Edit: Just want to add that in this particular case, I think both the draw.io and graph viz plugins are awesome. Love to see these kinds of tools.

On the contrary, if you are looking for ‘diagrams as code’ you likely don’t mean postscript, SVG, or XML of arbitrary lines and shapes.

You likely mean something structured and readable, like ‘literate diagramming’.

The top comment’s first phrase explained that rationale.

What is rude in this thread is your attempt to deny relevant information from these interested in diagram tools.

When I open threads like these I am mostly interested in:

- Interesting features that this tool has

- Experiences from the developers of this and similar tools

- Alternatives as well as their pros/cons

Meanwhile you want to deny that experience from me in order to not hurt something as irrelevant as the OPs pride.

I'd say that's one of the top reasons I like HN, as you can see what other people are using. Most of the time when I search the web for comparison between x and y, I find little useful info.

I clicked through on the comments to this because I'm looking for something similar to Draw.io and now I know about Graphviz as well. Once again, serendipity provides.

Even if a particular project isn't that interesting to me, the landscape surrounding the project may be. The community here provides some context for the world this project lives in and that's pretty valuable, IMHO.

Isn't that a good thing? If a thing does X, I'd very much like to know what other things do X as well to try and understand how they differ.

Does the comment above give you any insight of how they differ? That would be useful, but it's not the case

Yes it does. I often use draw.io. I've heard of graphviz but never looked into it. I found the original comment very useful because now I know:

- draw.io and graphviz have similar use cases (otherwise it wouldn't have been mentioned)

- Both have VS code plugins

- graphviz is a more structured language

- graphviz is more mature

- graphviz can be used from command line

Theoretically, drawio can be used from command line too! (it involves puppeteer though)

I, for one, find them useful. Part of the discussion about a tool is also being aware and potentially discuss alternatives.

I can't say I agree with you 100%, but I see your point. That is part of the reason I don't stop at the top comment. There's usually a lot of good information further down as well.

That’s not a comparison. Two different purposes for these tools. I use graphviz and I’m glad there is also support for it

Agreed. I’ve always found it rude and demeaning.

This can only serve as a service. I see no way this is a bad thing.

I'd rather read about someone's experience with the tool mentioned. If they prefer something else, I hope they share that and why. The graphviz thing in particular feels like someone who has an interest in the future of graphviz hijacks any alternative to say that graphviz exists.

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