Much of the lockdown effect was not imposed by top-down fiat
quillette.com
quillette.com
The debate is not moot because an imprudent minority can ruin it for the rest of us. Based on the models I've seen, the % of people disobeying the lockdown (even an informal lockdown) has a highly non-linear affect on the effectiveness.
That will set other countries who have eradicated the virus in an interesting state, with little natural immunity, they may not be able to open their borders again for a very long time.
People are already spreading this through basic supply and grocery store runs. People are getting it from family they live with. It's going to spread no matter what, through the people who still hang out once or twice a week with their best friends.
I think it's silly to plague shame people at this point. We are looking at each other in constant fear for something no one can control; based off information from experiments only a subset of the population can replicate, reported to us by media and governments who have repeatedly lied to us.
There is no way we will realistically see a vaccine in 18 months. That's big pharma insanity. Should we simply stay locked down forever? or until one of these drugs/compounds works? Humans are not cogs in a machine you can simply stop, or a device you can put in standby or low power state. We're human beings.
We were told we needed lockdown to flatten the curve. We have managed that (I am in Spain). Now it's all about new normal and completely screwing the economy with little evidence about the effectiveness of the measures.
This pure defeatism.
“California workers who see their hours cut as little as 10% due to the coronavirus outbreak are eligible to receive the entire $600-a-week federal subsidy offered in the $2-trillion federal rescue package, state officials and employment experts say.”
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2020-04-27/coronaviru...
I'm a bit distrustful i have to admit, especially when an article is music to my ear and confirm my beliefs with public data.
The peoples reaction to isolate, stay indoors was not spontaneous and though prudent, certainly not individual. There was a lot of group think involved.
If there is one thing that this pandemic has taught me, it is this - the extent of the thought/behavior control machinery spans the globe, and is effective.
Edit: This is an example of abuse of data and hence arriving at an incorrect position which can then drive policies.
The author plots the transportation data and the graph decline clearly shows people choosing to not travel. What it doesn't show is the propaganda broadcast preceding those times which "informed" the people and consequently altered their behavior. If you do, you'll see a sharp increase just before the transportation decline.
I hope the pandemic leads to certain hygiene things being take more seriously and improved, like public bathrooms. I hope it continues to be easier for me to avoid certain things post pandemic without it raising an eyebrow.
But if people were better about not doing awful things like blowing their nose in crowded public spaces, I don't think we really need a lock down, honestly. I have a serious medical condition and I habitually avoid large crowds and certain other things, but most people don't really know how much my life choices are driven by my medical situation. I look sort of "normal" in some sense. I sure as hell don't run around wearing a mask and gloves when I go out.
Congress already passed a bipartisan bill to provide free testing.
The same US government appears to have given up on testing now
In particular, compare Sweden and the US with other countries (Norway, perhaps, or South Korea).
Given the lack of correlation between government lockdown policy and public transit ridership, there's a couple of conclusions you could draw. One, as the author does, is that government lockdown policy doesn't effect behavior. Another, based on the second graph, is that none of the four cities the author shows had a meaningful government-mandated lockdown - that yes, as the author says, people didn't change behavior on their own, but that we can't conclude that government has no leverage here because none of those cities tried very hard. (As an NYC resident I can tell you that the government is sitting quite firmly in the unfortunate valley between leaving people alone and actually having an effect: there's a lot of people out of work and enough stories of nonsensical policing like throwing people in a crowded jail for not social distancing, but there are a lot of people, including our mayor himself, who are out and about in public that it isn't obviously helping with R₀.) Another possible one is that public transit ridership is a limited subset of behavior and changes for its own reasons (it's hard to maintain social distance and avoid touching metallic surfaces on a subway train) that don't necessarily track whether people are staying home or whether they're going around by means other than public transit.
While I do agree with the author that the model of the government having a magic lever is simplistic, I also don't think it follows that the government has no leverage. There are a number of policies well within the powers of government, from unemployment eligibility to literally giving out food, that I'd think have a much more effective influence on whether people stay home than whether they're told to stay home. (I suspect the author will agree with me that it's better to use government levers other than "we'll send armed men after you if you don't," if you have any.) The lockdown protests from people who want to return to work (to be distinguished from the protests from people who want others to return to working for them) are from people who need to work to survive and don't have remote work options - there are other things the government could do to meet the underlying demands besides saying, okay, you can go to work. In general, it's not that they want to leave their house, it's that they have to.
And while I do agree with the author that it's the people and not the government who make or break the lockdown (see also Hong Kong, where the citizenry realized that their government wasn't taking the problem seriously, for a particularly good example), I don't really think that ends the debate at all. I think the author is pretty wrong about whether it's safe to send kids back to school, for instance!
Maybe I'm not understanding your rebuttal / how to use the graph you linked? (e.g., type "Norway" and "Sweden" at the bottom, do the graphs not reflect a meaningful difference between those countries?)
That's not the only reason for people to protest it. I can work from home just fine, but the lockdown is really hurting me because I already suffer from depression and the last 2 months of solitary confinement hasn't done me any good (to say the least). I would go to the office if I could, I really need the social contact. I know some others in work feel the same. There wouldn't be that many of us so it would be pretty safe anyway. It would make sense to let the people who are willing to risk it return to work first.
To be honest a few more months of this carries a much higher mortality risk for me than that virus. As a result I'm not worried about that. I'd rather run a small (and pretty preventable with hygiene measures) risk of dying free than my mental health declining rapidly from being locked up. I'm careful around other people anyway.
I also think the "public health above everything" mentality that's prevalent now is a bit hypocritical, as most countries have been heavily cutting healthcare spending over the last years without much uproar. Trump himself has been gaining popularity by denying people healthcare over the past years (think Obamacare). Overdoing (and criticising others for less actively implementing) the covid measures is just the latest "cool" politically-correct thing people want to be seen doing. Like when everyone was buying electric cars to show how much they cared about the environment (even though not buying a car but using public transport was still a lot better for it!)
What I mean is that here there's been a lot of threads in the local forums of people speaking shame about others not wearing masks, some people have even started logging statistics and taking photos. Whereas masks are not mandatory here and are in fact very hard to get. I just hate that 'holier than thou' attitude. The situation in the hospitals is now well under control here, which is what we were told it was all about.
https://battlepenguin.com/philosophy/covid-19-is-two-disease...
I did a follow up called This Is Not a time of Honor, but it doesn't cover a lot of things that are starting to come out right now: the sheer number of people who had serious medical conditions who avoided hospitals or were told simply to not come in. There are several anecdotal stories of people who have died from heart attacks and other diseases, and those need to be measured because that should have never fucking happened.
So much of what has been done to stop this disease has had determinable effects. We try to say Lives > Economy, but the economy isn't just some abstract concept; it is what allows so many of us to live. Our leaders locked everyone down without providing a god damn thing to help people (at least in the US, at least in the UK and other country, they got payroll ... PPP in the US is a god damn joke).
I also fear that the push for contract tracing will basically erode all our privacy, or what's left of it anyway.
In the same way the initial cases of COVID can kill people - but the response; the lockdown for example can damage the economy to a degree that people can also be killed.
To some extent, I find this attitude of populist hyper-vigilance to be exasperating, because sending your young kids to school is now generally safe (and, selfishly, because I think my own seven-year-old could benefit from getting back to a structured education environment). But we got into this mess by letting our guard down, and so it’s not surprising that many ordinary people want to err on the other side of the equation for a month or three. Whatever your views, though, if you’re all in a fuss about lockdown policy, please remember that the real lockdown was never imposed by government. It turns out that it was inside each and every one of us all along."
This is a real slight of hand thinking. People were primed for lockdown, even shamed, and then the claim that it was never imposed by the government.