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Comment by nradov | Hacker News Reader

VR will be fun for some players but I expect many will struggle with motion sickness.

Probably not in a cockpit. At least in my experience having that cockpit as a static frame of reference really makes it quite a smooth experience.

Motion sickness isn't something I experience a tonne of in VR unless it's falling from up high or those rollercoaster simulations.

There is a flying VR game I used to play for awhile. Controls were a little difficult but it was quite fun and motion sickness wasn't a problem (in my case at least).

I have a steering wheel and pedal setup that I use in VR, and it's the lack of correct G-forces that really get to you. I'm pretty good with motion sickness in VR, but Asseto Corsa took me about 3 hours of 10 minute intervals before I could take a corner at high speed, or slam the brakes without getting very very nauseous.

I can see it being comfortable once you're in the air, but takeoff and landing might feel very weird :P

You just reminded me I used to play Dirt Rally VR quite a bit. That's amazing in VR. The sense of presence is incredible. Maybe I just don't suffer motion sickness as much?

Funnily enough I've been playing Satisfactory a lot lately and I keep losing my stomach whenever I jump off really high places. I guess even non-VR games can affect you too!

I'm not an expert but I thought a large part of motion sickness comes from the fact that you perceive motion visually but there is no confirmation from the inner ear (as in real life these two sensory inputs work together to maintain your balance). The other way it's also true (sea sickness), where the inner ear registers motion (the ship bobbing due to waves), but you don't see that you are moving (doubly so if you are inside) so again there's conflicting sensory input.

I don't suffer from seasickness normally, but a few years back we had a knotted up anchor chain so I went in to service the winch and there was a bit of a swell outside. In about 30 minutes I was quite ill. Once I fixed the winch and went out it all dissipated quickly when I could see the sea & horizon moving again.

This is a best-case for VR -- sitting still in a cockpit. The sensory input should be almost identical to real life, so I wouldn't think nausea will be a big issue.

I think the lack of forces, especially in smaller, more agile plains, can introduce some motion sickness in experienced pilots who are familiar with, and their body expects, the forces they ought to be feeling when taking off, doing a roll, etc.

But still, until artificial gravity can be generated, this is the closest it will come for the vast majority of people.

There are some small/ultra light aircraft simulators that get pretty close, being able to rotate the cockpit left right up and down. Still, can't really simulate directional acceleration/deceleration with possibly short bumps like landing gear contacting the ground and similar.

But definitely, any pilot will tell you that feeling all the forces is actually big part of good piloting, as you can feel what the airplane is experiencing & act accordingly. I took a ride in some small planes (a 4 person two motor plane and a glider) as well as an advanced small plane simulator and really, the simulator was good but not really comparable.

Not to mention extreme cases like air racing or aerial acrobatics where the forces are so extreme that they might prevent the pilot from having enough strength to execute control input or possibly even make them black out.

> any pilot will tell you that feeling all the forces is actually big part of good piloting, as you can feel what the airplane is experiencing & act accordingly.

Going to argue against that generally. Vestibular disorientation is a significant killer of pilots. In instrument flying, you specifically train to ignore those sensations. Fly the numbers, not the feelings.

Yep, that's a good point - it can certainly also be a big problem in poor visibility or other cases where you get disoriented.

At Kennedy Space Center, the Space Shuttle simulation was pretty amazing. I believe the trick was to make us think we were sitting at rest at a 90 degree angle, when in fact it must have been less, such that when the shuttle did take off in the simulation the seat made an even higher angle (+ shaking). And the sudden lowering of the angle (when engine cuts off and we're supposed to float) was a pretty damn amazing illusion too. I definitely recommend it.

Yeah, I'd love to see a "behind the scenes" of that ride (it's entirely possible one exists, I haven't actually looked...)

I've ridden it several times, and while I intellectually understand how it must work, it's still super convincing.

For simracing and VR, a 6dof motion rig decreases motion sickness.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLw0Jh-Ab5E

Why would a game like this have any motion sickness?

Maybe not motion sickness, but I’ve yet to wear a VR set I can enjoy for more than 10-15 minutes at a time. I think some people just adapt to stereoscopic illusion better than others- I struggle during 3D movies too.

There is a small fraction (iirc 10-20%) of the population for whom a disparity between accommodation (focus) and binocular vision (what 3d movies do) causes headaches and nausea.

This is why most 3d movies have very little happen in the virtual space between you and the screen. Since more than about 7 meters away is basically all the same final distance, it's fine.

That being said, it's the stuff flying at you that makes 3d seem worth the extra money, so they try to balance it. Some people will still get very ill even with the small amount that movies do.

The term “motion sickness” describes the disparity between sensations that the mind expects to accompany what the eyes are seeing, but those sensations are not there. In a flight simulation, things like gravity, acceleration, etc. are not really possible to simulate.

The physiological basis is that a disagreement between the inner ear's sense of balance and the eye's perception of orientation is an early signal of having ingested a neurotoxin. Thus vomiting to expel whatever you just ate is a good first response.

Technically, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_reality_sickness, but I think motion sickness suffices as a generic term.

I also think discriminating between motion sickness, flight simulator sickness and virtual reality sickness is splitting hairs, or at least a gradual difference. One could claim motion sickness requires real motion, but you have that in a good flight simulator, too, and most VR setups allow one to, at the least, move one’s head freely.

I had 30 min in a certified helicopter simulator earlier this year.

The sim was built out of an actual fuselage (Sikorsky S-76) with full controls, visuals were 8x projectors on a curved wall in front of and around the cockpit. Everything was bolted to the floor, no movement anywhere.

After 10-15 minutes I did a hard bank and my gosh, the whole world moved, and I could have sworn I was about to slide out of my seat. I panicked that I didn't have a harness on.

The instructor laughed and said that was quite normal and that many people get very motion sick.

So yeah, I can see that motion sickness, with the "right" setup, could easily be a thing.

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