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Comment by Ductapemaster | Hacker News Reader

One really positive thing I have found for myself in the WFH life is that I am taking MUCH better care of myself. So far I have lost weight, started a bodyweight workout routine, which I do in between meetings/calls/other work, and have gained back 2 hours of my day by not taking transit into the city. That's 2 more hours every day that I get to relax, work on a personal project, hang out with my SO, or even crush out some work-related interest if I am feeling motivated. It has also been a fantastic motivator and resource for cooking — I can start dinner before my workday is over, cook myself lunch, meal plan...

I also pay thousands of dollars to live in a cool place, and now I am finally getting to enjoy it, and enjoy it with my SO.

At the end of the day, maybe I am less "productive", by normal standards, but maybe I didn't need to be in an office for 8+ hours every day to get the parts of my job done that need getting done.

There surely are parts of this that I want to change or can't wait to change, but at the end of the day I am grateful for the forcing function to working from home full-time.

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Actually it's the opposite for me, I've started taking so much junk snacks (which wasn't available at Office), Less Walks and No proper schedule. Sleeps off the time. Many a days just getting up and jumping into calls.

On the positive side, it's more quality time with family but I'm still wondering how to fix the health part.

Yeah, I'm exactly the same. I'm definitely a creature of schedule, and in "normal" times I go to the gym regularly, am more efficient at work, etc. Now everything just kind of "melds together" for me and even with more time without the commute I find my energy levels are consistently way, way lower.

>I'm still wondering how to fix the health part.

Everything you've mentioned is entirely in your own hands i.e. it's entirely self-control. You don't need an office, or the boss watching, to get up with time to spare, to not eat crap or get out for some fresh air.

With the above being said, don't beat yourself up too much. We're in a situation whereby we're all experiencing a sense of loss of control and total uncertainty about the future, combined with many other factors to worry about, so it's not surprising that it may propagate itself to affect the control you exercise over your own life.

If you're comfortable with it, just look at it as accumulating debt much like tech debt. Not tackling these things now might be fine but eventually you'll have to pay some of it down in the near future, and that may be a conscious trade-off yourself, and indeed many others, are happy to make right now.

You'll get over it over time. You're still adjusting, but eventually you'll get tired of wasting your day sleeping off or eating junk food that makes you feel bad. Then you'll be able to make your own schedule. I believe in you, but it's even more crucial that you believe in yourself.

> I've started taking so much junk snacks (which wasn't available at Office)

What I've found helps is to not buy snacks. I eat junk if it's available, but if nothing is nearby, then I can't be bothered to go out and purchase it, so I'll eat a grapefruit instead.

Another thing that I have found helps is to order a community supported agriculture (CSA) produce box. A lot of farmers that supply restaurants are losing a lot of business lately, and at least in the Bay Area, many are starting to sell directly to consumers. I'm on a weekly schedule now where every Wednesday I pick up a box of restaurant quality vegetables in SF, and it's pretty fun because a lot of these vegetables are ones I've never even heard of before. It has become a hobby to come up with new types of meals, and it also gives my wife and I a nice break from the monotony to go for our vegetable pickup excursion.

One of my mottos: Good eating starts in the supermarket, not in the kitchen.

I can easily not buy potato chips. I don't even pretend like I'll control myself and not eat a whole bag in one night if it's in the house.

You don’t even have to go to the supermarket for food these days so can avoid the temptations completely.

With online shopping it’s easy to set up a weekly shopping list so easier to stay in track, no chocolate bars or soft drinks at the check outs. Likewise if you walk to a butchers or green grocers vs a supermarket it’s easier to avoid temptations.

Do you have a second motto that helps me not stress eat all the good food I just bought?

If you buy food that requires preparation time, that makes it less likely to stress eat.

That's an interesting idea. I'll look into that.

Fuck it.

I'd just enjoy myself, the damage is already done this time.

Just buy a bunch of veggies. Eat soup all day?

My motto is: if you're house is dirty, you're probably getting depressed. Clean your house.

It'll probably help with the stress eating. Anxiety is a big culprit and it is common these days.

On the other hand, if my house is very clean and uncluttered, I'm probably depressed/anxious and not spending time doing things I like. I personally despise cleaning house, and minimal cleaning for practical reasons works for me.

Eat it all you want? I can eat cherry tomatoes all day long and I doubt that’s awful for me

Make it difficult. Open chips, put chips into bowl, and take them somewhere else. (for example). You can make yourself bored while eating them, but I rarely do. The bowl/plate plus immediate cleanup helps stop the mindless eating.

In the meantime, work on getting some sort of hobby to help with the stress.

Love that. I've learned two things about myself in the last 5 years or so:

- I have very little self control when impulses are right in front of me. This goes for most things: drinking (especially out), food/snacks, purchases, even exercise (eg. just keep hiking a little farther vs. stopping).

- I have enormous self control if I "distance" myself from impulse. This means not buying snacks in the first place, trying out alternative forms of exercise, not buying beer except on weekends, putting things from Amazon on a wishlist vs. clicking the Buy Now button.

I know my impulses well enough at this point, and maybe there is something to be said for these methods not actually controlling them (just avoiding them), but they are much healthier mentally for me since I can indulge when things are around that I want without feeling guilty for being constantly indulging.

Another nice aspect of a CSA is the push to eat seasonally. I'm not sure it really matters, but I find it aesthetically appealing.

Of course, the downside is that I now have to figure out what to do with fennel for the 6th week in a row...

Alternate between steaming it and eating it raw. Rotate through sauces, including none, just some oil, and then fancy stuff.

I skip fancy stuff myself and nibble on them raw. Makes for a good Netflix snack.

Bit late now (in the UK at least) if you want it all in season, but I like it in a pie with sweet potato and leek, and just a bechemel sauce, optionally thickened with egg or cheese.

Not buying the bad stuff is key. Passing it in the store takes orders of magnitude less 'willpower' than moderating your consumption once it is in your cupboard.

> What I've found helps is to not buy snacks.

And the main trick to doing that is to not go shopping while hungry. If you are hungry, eat something small before going for groceries, and the temptations will have a lot less power over you.

I was going to say the former comment but I will add. Treat junk snacks as actual junk. Limit yourself to one snack as comfort food a week that you can buy. It doesnt hurt to have some cookies around but dont go to town on them.

Before going to shop, write a shopping list at home. When you are at the shop, you can still put something extra in your cart, but generally be in the "I am following the list" mindset, instead of "I am looking around and see if something catches my attention" mindset.

Before writing the shopping list, decide what meals do you want to eat in the following days; then put the ingredients in the list. Otherwise you might end up with too much breakfast stuff, and not enough cooking-material stuff. (Or with cooking-material stuff that you don't know how to put together.)

Before even that... if you are not a skilled cook, you could make a list of all meals you can cook, and put it on your fridge. So when you are out of ideas, just look at the list and pick something you haven't cooked recently. You will get greater variety, and you will keep practicing all you have learned.

I'm way in on junk food and no exercise since the pandemic started. I've decided I'm okay with it. I try not to be too unhealthy but this lockdown is difficult and junk food is comforting. At some point I will put a stop to it but for now I'm just enjoying an increased diet of junk food.

WFH has been a proper disaster for me.

Went from working out 3 days a week to none. Went from 2 meals only a day to stopped counting. Productivity has gone out the window.

Man, I used to love my job. I can't wait to run back to my office and have both externally imposed structures and a physical separation of work and fun.

Is that WFH or lockdown related?

It is both. I used to like being able to confine work to work and fun to home. I don't like them both mixing with WFH.

My leisure was climbing, soccer and hanging out with friends...all 3 of which have come to a complete halt.

My room itself is in a terrible location, in that the windows don't face sunlight and face someone else's house. The common spaces are busy, since I live in a group house and don't have a separate study to work in.

I might have been less affected by WFH if I had made the transition more willingly. But, it being imposed on me while I am incredibly underprepared makes it a worse.

I feel you on that. I was _just_ getting back into climbing after a multi-year hiatus, and I was _so_ excited. Found a climbing buddy, finally worked up the courage to get onto the walls again and "be bad" at it. I was also doing cardio classes multiple days a week. It's all gone now.

I told myself at the beginning of lockdown that if I wasn't going to be able to do that, I had to make another change to make up for it. I was already putting in all the effort, and I just needed to redirect it. For me that was doing intermittent fasting (I just don't buy breakfast foods these days), and investing in cooking, which I already loved but wasn't doing enough of.

Wish you the best buddy. I'm hoping as things open up outdoors (which is the steps we seem to be taking, at least in CA) you can get back outside for some activity.

Opposite. I got lonely, so I went to Houston to visit family. I typically eat super healthy, exercise daily and do strenuous 16+ hour outdoors adventures on weekend days. Now, I just eat a lot, drink beer and watch TV. I lost all my fun outdoor activities, inspiration and what I do for stress relief.

More to do with being on lockdown than WFH.

This so much. If you were active outdoorsy person with pretty cool active life, WFH and all related can be a bit of a disaster. We can still go out, but doing anything with real risks is supremely selfish now. As in Europe, we can't travel in other countries. Being in place surrounded with beautiful France and having Italy within 1 hour drive, this severely restricts where we can go.

Also, I've been previously hitting gym 4-5 times a week on top of that, WFH can only go down in such scenario - I still try to motivate myself with some basic weights I have found at home, but it ain't the same as using ie squat rack with proper weights for example. At least running is +-same.

Human interaction is a topic on its own, I feel sorry for many single folks or those in relationships that aren't living together. In many cases it must be stressful.

You could switch to bodyweight exercises and work towards onearm pushups/pullups and pistols if you want a challenge

I got into climbing because it was the only way I could get myself excited to go to the gym and keep a routine. It is just prep so I can climb cool stuff outside. Working out at home just isn't the same. It is also less social. I'm not a big social person, but I need something besides my roommates and getting outside. I know some people can just go to the gym every day and lift weights, but I've tried so many times.

Yeah, I just can't do it without it being fun and having a goal / purpose. Ie, I'm training for this trip or this whatever.

The hard part about training is not the training itself, but finding something you enjoy enough that you don't need any grit to do it.

There is a reason 73.9% of the North American-population is overweight [1], and it's not because they are not knowledgable.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_body_weight

> One really positive thing I have found for myself in the WFH life is that I am taking MUCH better care of myself.

I think people are going to come out of this one of two ways - half will come out fitter, mentally and physically, more positive, with new interests and skills and stronger relationships, and the other half are going to come out a mess (understandably.)

I'm coming out of the this less fit, mostly because my workouts depended on being out of the house. gyms being open. Or freedom to travel to somewhere.

Im also not eating as fresh as I normally do. I can usually get fish and vegetables and cook the day of. Now I gotta stock up on groceries for the week to reduce shopping frequency.

What workouts are they that cannot be done without access to a gym?

For me it’s the variety of city food I miss the most. I live quite a way out from where I work and while there are still a few open takeaways, they’re pretty average in quality and lacking in variety. However there are larger and mostly well stocked supermarkets so buying fresh food to last the week hasn’t been a problem (most veg will last a week albeit some items will need to be refrigerated). However I definitely feel your pain about fish.

To be honest very little has changed with regards to shopping for me because i have two young kids and my wife works full time as well, so we are used to doing big weekly shops since that’s the most practical way for us to shop even pre-COVID19. I guess the biggest change is where we used to order it online and have it delivered, now we are driving to the store and picking the items ourselves.

> What workouts are they that cannot be done without access to a gym?

Anything needing special equipment or terrain, for example. If you want to do a climbing workout you're going out of luck without a rockface in your back garden or your own climbing wall, aren't you.

> I guess the biggest change is where we used to order it online and have it delivered, now we are driving to the store and picking the items ourselves.

This seems like the opposite of what you'd want to do - why are you doing this?

> Anything needing special equipment or terrain, for example. If you want to do a climbing workout you're going out of luck without a rockface in your back garden or your own climbing wall, aren't you.

In theory you’d be right but I the reason I asked is because there’s usually workouts you can still do at home to keep at least some of those muscles in shape even if you can’t do your usual training routines without using any specialist equipment. Granted sometimes you have to get a little creative but it’s certainly doable for most gym exercises that immediately sprint to mind.

Take the rock climbing example: I used to train at home doing pull ups on door frames on the weeks I couldn’t make it to an indoor climbing wall (though that was quite a few years ago now).

> This seems like the opposite of what you'd want to do - why are you doing this?

I agree and it’s not through choice I do it. The problem is everyone else agrees too and thus it has become impossible to book delivery slots due to the volume of demand.

> In theory you’d be right but I the reason I asked is because there’s usually workouts you can still do at home to keep at least some of those muscles in shape

Right, but you asked 'what workouts are they that cannot be done without access to a gym' and you're suggesting other workouts to keep the same muscles working. Yeah fine, but that's not the same workout, which is what you asked.

To be honest I didn’t put a much thought into the original comment because it’s now 4am U.K. time and I was just trying to idle my brain into sleep. Unfortunately the insomnia is winning tonight. :(

Sorry for the inconvenience.

> Take the rock climbing example

As a climber who currently does finger pull ups on my door frame, there is so much I can't do. A lot of climbing is body position and control of your center of mass. You can't practice proper technique for climbing without a wall. There's just also things you can't do without the height. As an avid sport climber, I would usually end my days climbing doing lead laps. This helps make clipping second nature because you're doing it till you can't do it anymore. I can't even think of a way to remotely simulate that at home and it has been such a critical component of my workout. It is the thing that allows me to do multi-pitch no problem and it is the thing that helps me sleep at night.

I’d not worry about it too much, I’ve gone maybe 9 months without climbing or doing anything but snowboarding and 2nd day out of the season done a 17 pitch 700m trad 5.9 multi. it comes back real fast, and the technique sticks long after the strength is gone.

Can’t wait to get back on rock Thursday out official “opening” date. planning on doing a 5.8 5 pitch multi right off the bat after 8 months off

It isn't me being worried about doing projects, it is the lack of a workout schedule. Many people choose sports, like climbing, because it is easier to convince themselves to workout. Having a good workout routine is a big part to mental and physical health.

Jiu-jitsu classes need a gym. It's hard to replace those workouts. Idk if it would even be safe for me to run for 2-3 hours I'd need to spend time working up to that and not ruin my legs or knees. That's a whole 2-3 hour work out few times a week. Plus board sports is my other workout. Ski resorts shut down and cities are restricting travel make it hard to drive for surf.

I'm doing what I can but working out intentionally like that sucks when it used to just be fun. Heh

I’m not familiar with Jiu-Jitsu specifically but I have trained in a few martial arts, Japanese and western, and they usually have routines you can practice on your own. Is the same not true for Jiu-jitsu?

With the bored sports, while you obviously couldn’t train your board skills, you could still keep working on those muscles and stamina at home through different training exercises.

I agree none of this is the same as going to your gym et al, but my point wasn’t that you could do identical training at home. It was that you could do something similar to at least keep yourself reasonably sharp.

Yeah there's probably some, the problem is motivation. I can go to a class and workout hard for hours, and not really notice. After a few minutes of running I'm ready to call it a day.

Same for surfing, keeping busy with a skateboard though. Paddle endurance is taking a hit.

If he's talking about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, then there's very little you can do on your own unfortunately. It all depends on having access to a training partner.

I just had a quick Google and found a bunch of training videos on YouTube for Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, so it does seem possible. Having done a number of martial arts myself I do understand that having a partner does make a massive difference but I've never come across a martial art that doesn't have solo training exercises to enable individuals to practice when alone. Even the martial arts that you wouldn't expect could work solo (like fencing) still have solo training exercises.

Yes there are things you can do, but they're not very effective, especially if you've been training a while.

Focusing on general strength training, flexibility and improving your endurance is much better use of your time than doing these solo drills.

If you lift heavy, power lifting etc it’s hard to do at home unless you go out and buy a rack, barbell and plates.

You’ll never lift or replicate anywhere near 100-200kg+ with home body weight workouts.

If you do general fitness, circuits etc home workouts can be good for that.

I guess it all depends on what you are training for.

Fair point. I’ve never done anything like heavy lifting so admittedly that is one scene that’s alien to me.

Most aquatic sports, in addition to weightlifting, climbing, court sports (tennis, handball, racquetball, etc.), some dance, etc.

Cardio's easier to transition elsewhere, strength ... possible though the "big lifts" (squats, deads) are least easily converted, especially in shared / limited space. Having your upstairs apartment neighbour doing sets of deads could get annoying.

Anything with equipment or dedicated structures will be less convenient.

I'm in the same boat. I was lifting heavy at the gym, now I'm limited to kettlebells and can't even do pull ups.

We'll be fine once this is over and we can get back to our old routines.

Yeah sucks though to have it disrupted. My yoga is getting pretty good though

Is there nothing around that you can use as makeshift weights? When I was at high school and couldn’t afford a gym membership I used a bunch of old telephone directories as makeshift weights.

It wasn’t ideal but it worked for a few months until I got my first job.

Pull ups are one of the easier problems to solve at home. You can get bars for your doorway that extend out like stair gates. Or if you have a fat enough door frame and strong enough fingers you could pull up directly from the frame (I used to do this too).

Obviously you know your situation better than I do so I’m not meaning any of the above to sound preachy. I also get that proper equipment makes a world of difference and using improper equipment can add an element of risk.

I don't have telephone directories anymore, and I certainly don't have 200 lbs of them in easily graspable form... hand weights are fine but kettlebells are better than those, and neither is at all the same as a barbell.

Yeah, 200 lbs would be pretty dangerous to attempt with DIY solutions I’d imagine.

My college house mate built his own Olympic lifting setup in his tiny bedroom. Slept at the foot of it.

It’s hard to lift without equipment - nothing around the house concentrates that amount of weight into something liftable.

Pull up bars mostly work the back muscles but don’t provide enough isolation to work the biceps.

I have however seen a video recommending bicep curls where your arms pull against a towel folded across your foot, which pushes in the other direction. By locking the elbows, isolation is achieved and your leg which has larger muscles than your arms provides the counterweight. It’s not ideal but it’s better than nothing.

You can do KB rows, which are part of the pull-up ROM and musculature.

A strap/webbing system might help for pulls, if you have a suitably high attachment point.

Kind of similar.

My food has been pretty much perfect. I’ve reduced calories to match reduced activity but what I eat is still proportioned correctly, lean meats, vegetables, rice/potatoes.

What I have noticed though is due to isolation only going out when necessary, not lifting weights four days a week, no general daily walking about and no cardio is that now walking up the four flights of stairs to my apartment I’m getting slightly out of breath when I shouldn’t. I’m getting cardiovascular unfit when at the start of the year I was the fittest I’ve ever been.

I’ve also noticed body composition changes. I’ve lost 1-2 kilo, looking a lot less muscular / smaller. As food has been good I don’t think there’s an increase in body fat I just have less mass overall. When you’ve been training hard it’s demotivating.

Things are starting to relax as where I am the numbers are very good so am going to start going for runs to get my cardio back even though I’m not a runner. That’ll again make body composition less muscular as burn off more calories.

For the gym to do my weight training, unfortunately they will be the last to open and it’s a huge mental down knowing I’ll essentially need to start from the very beginning again.

>half will come out fitter, mentally and physically, more positive, with new interests and skills and stronger relationships

With you until the last part. This is an inward period. People are getting to know themselves, improving themselves, learning to be more independent, etc. because the space previously occupied by other people has been freed.

Unless you're talking about cohabitants? Seems to me that excessive contact would ruin the strongest relationships even faster than no contact would.

> Seems to me that excessive contact would ruin the strongest relationships even faster than no contact would.

Fair assumption, but my fiancé and I are doing just fine. If anything this proved for sure that we can go ahead and get married.

What COVID-19 lockdown has revealed, imo: relationships that were on shaky ground accelerate their demise [0]. Those that were "meant to be" come out more intimate.

[0] Breaking up after realizing you can't survive 24/7 together is not necessarily a bad thing.

spot on. also the lack of bars and clubs forces people to be more with themselves. seems to be pretty hard for some folks.

i personally enjoy this period and wouldn't mind if the lockdown stays up for a few more months/years lol

    Unless you're talking about cohabitants? Seems to me 
    that excessive contact would ruin the strongest
    relationships even faster than no contact would.

Yeah. Depends on living situation, really, right?

Folks cohabitating in cramped living conditions 24/7, particularly in the city where they can't just easily go outside and enjoy some fresh air and open space? Yikes. I mean, even in prison they give ya outdoor time and you get to mingle in the yard.

At the opposite end of the spectrum you have people living out in the country or the suburbs in houses with multiple rooms. My partner and I fall into this category. We each have our own work spaces and outside of work hours we can spend time together or we have plenty of space in which to avoid each other. Plus we can go for walks and get fresh air and some minimal social interaction with neighbors and fellow dog walkers from a safe distance. I call this "social distancing on easy mode." Our relationship is doing okay.

I think it's context dependent. I did two months of quarantine isolated in a 500sqft apartment and experienced slowly deteriorating mental health culminating in a mental breakdown. Now, I'm in a 1200sqft apartment with two close friends, a patio, and a dog. I am happy as ever and crushing work from home now that I was able to find a sustaining environment.

I was the same until about 5 weeks in, then the isolation got to me and I reverted to food and sleep to manage my emotions and I wiped out all my progress in two weeks.

It's important to remember that this is not a normal state of affairs, this doesn't accurately reflect WFH. I'm personally curious ot try WFH more once we return to 'normal'.

Isolation?

I think the name "social distancing" isn't a good choice. It should be called physical distancing.

Because socially, you can be as close as ever, just use video chat. Whereby, Zoom, Skype, etc. to hang out with groups of people (be it friends, colleagues, etc.)

Video chat isn't the same. I've been using it a lot and it's isolating. There are plenty of studies showing that biologically it's inferior. Also my main hobby is musical theatre, most of which only works in person, so the things that bring me joy in life are all postponed.

Opposite for me. I gained weight because I no longer walk to work (walk to station, take subway, walk from office). And, I'm only a few feet from my kitchen so can eat.

I have no S.O. so much lonelier not having co-workers to talk to, eat lunch with, etc...

Same. I feel the positive effects are actually making me more productive, not less. I do end up writing code at midnight some days, but having a floating schedule fits me so much better. Meeting face to face for some things is nice, but it's not worth all the downsides. I honestly dread when I'll be forced back in the office - even though this has shown we can work from home for extended periods, I don't see my company allowing us to do so after they don't have to.

You would be atypical if you were less productive by normal standards. Most studies I have seen on the topic usually show a marked increase in worker productivity in working from home. There is a bit of a confounding variable, however... Homes are not open floor plan for the most part. And we know from over 1,000 studies that open floor plan offices massacre productivity to a huge degree. So it might just be the benefit of not having all of the kneecapping and hamstringing taken away that is usually inflicted by business on their workers through open floor plans.

They would not be atypical, because they are working during a pandemic, which is in itself a massive confounding variable. Even people who normally work from home are writing about being less productive than usual right now. This is not a good way to assess "working from home" vs "working in the office", any more than it would be to measure productivity of someone who was suddenly housebound with a broken leg.

> maybe I am less "productive", by normal standards

What are normal standards?

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