World's Largest Producer of Rubbing Alcohol Can't Manufacturer Hand Sanitizer | Hacker News Reader

World's Largest Producer of Rubbing Alcohol Can't Manufacturer Hand Sanitizer

marginalrevolution.com

57 pointsjseliger22 comments

Source article: https://www.wsj.com/articles/why-you-cant-find-rubbing-alcoh...

Please also note that this is a raw opinion piece not linked to any news articles containing further details about the FDA’s actions.

The authors of Marginal Revolution are two well-renowned economics professors.

> The Food and Drug Administration and Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives have prohibited the use of ethanol in place of isopropyl alcohol even though both are equally effective as germ-killers.

Huh? I thought most of it was made with ethanol?

Just checked a USA Target, and Purell is 70% ethyl alcohol.

The problem with using IPA is that you can easily die if you drink it.

Huh, interesting. Lot of distillers for booze 'round here have turned, at least in part, to producing hand sanitizer

When this is all said and done... I'd really like to get a bottle of two of antiseptic topical solutions. https://newschannel9.com/news/local/chattanooga-whiskey-part... -- there's just something about the bottle as a memento.

https://www.distilledspirits.org/distillers-responding-to-co... for the list of all of them.

Many of the distilleries which were making hand sanitizer have stopped and this list doesn't appear to reflect this. I know that at least 2 of the distilleries listed in my state stopped producing hand sanitizer a couple of weeks ago and no longer have any in stock.

Distilleries in general are not setup to produce the purity of alcohol needed for hand sanitizer. What distilleries do have is licenses to purchase large quantities of alcohol. Most distilleries were purchasing the required alcohol from other sources, producing hand sanitizer in their facility and bottling it.

The supply of the required alcohol has either dried up or prices have gotten to levels making uneconomical for them to continue producing hand sanitizer.

I just searched "sds hand sanitizer" to get some random data sheets. All of the first ten I looked at were mostly ethanol. Two of them also included ~5% isopropyl.

I think the author here might be confusing different quality grades of alcohol with different chemical types of alcohol.

It's awkwardly worded...I had to re-read the article a few times. They prohibited the use of "fuel grade ethanol" that hasn't yet met the higher standards of ethanol meant for hand sanitizer. And they are making exceptions on a case-by-case basis where the manufacturer can show they meet those higher standards.

The problem with using IPA is that you can easily die if you drink it.

Random fact - IPA is not that toxic. If you drink it, your body will happily oxidize it to acetone. Acetone is not that toxic since your body produces it when burning fat. Estimated fatal dose of IPA is 500mL.

TIL. However, the CDC quotes a source saying it’s about half that:

> Human data: Ten volunteers exposed for 3 to 5 minutes to 200, 400, or 800 ppm reported mild to moderate irritation of the eyes, nose, and throat at the two higher concentrations [Nelson et al. 1943]. The probable lethal oral dose has been reported to be 190 grams [Gosselin et al. 1984].

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/idlh/67630.html

IPA has a density of 0.786 g/cm3 (20 °C) (per Wikipedia), so that’s 190/0.786 = 242 ml (about 8 oz).

LD50 and estimation of fatal doses can be tricky. Opting for “overly conservative” is hardly inappropriate either. So I wouldn’t be surprised if both of these numbers were correct for different testing criteria.

Should’ve said “more easily die”. It’s definitely no methanol though.

How dare the FDA stop harmful chemicals from fuel-grade ethanol finding their way into my Purell! Surely the market would solve this problem itself. Once people get skin cancer, they will simply stop buying the lower quality, dangerous product. This is econ 101.

There was a huge surge in the UK for alcohol-based hand sanitiser, the price shot up, and despite that pretty soon you couldn't get it anywhere. People were stealing it out of hospitals.

I went round the corner to a hardware shop and bought 2 litres of methylated spirits for a tenner. Mixed it 3 parts meths to 1 part water, bingo.

I've read that you shouldn't do this because it dries your hands, unlike the gel which has a moisturiser component, and can cause cracks into which... an infection can get.

One squirt of lotion after each use. Problem solved.

Hmmmm. Cui bono on that claim, I do wonder. (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cui%20bono)

Yeah we've heard of Cicero. And Cassius.

The WHO has a protocol for preparing hand sanitizer from ethyl or isopropyl alcohols; they recommend adding glycerin to protect skin.

[1] https://www.who.int/gpsc/tools/faqs/abhr1/en/

This seems pretty reasonable. Fuel-grade ethanol probably has other stuff in it that may or may not be safe. The FDA doesn’t want people rubbing it on their hands until the factories demonstrate that it’s safe.

This isn’t universally true, but I once toured a sulfuric acid plant, and the only difference between their technical grade, food grade and pharma grade were the price and the certificate it came with.

But ya, they’d be upset if anyone was permitted to use the tech grade as food/pharma grade without paying the price.

I'm pretty sure the point is that distillation for fuel doesn't remove all the aldehydes (and other stuff?) that distillation for rubbing alcohol would normally entail. One more trip around in the still (or however the heck continuous distillation works) would probably make the product work fine.

One assumes they're trying to sell alcohol that was originally destined for use in fuel (since we're idiots and we put alcohol in gasoline) for another use, since the demand for fuel alcohol cratered and the demand for rubbing alcohol skyrocketed.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com