Then I probably have to remind myself that I'm (halfway successfully) running a SaaS platform with tens of thousands of users, so maybe I'm not that clueless after all.
Maybe Google scale isn't for me.
Then I probably have to remind myself that I'm (halfway successfully) running a SaaS platform with tens of thousands of users, so maybe I'm not that clueless after all.
Maybe Google scale isn't for me.
Then, somehow, little annoyances crept in and accumulated over time.
And now everything they make is like treacle.
>I recently came across your name as a _possible world class Engineer_
That right here is the cancer.
You see, intuitively I thought this would involve some kind of radian maths (just because it's about angles and a circle) and I don't remember any of that - never had any use for it.
But yes, it is a lot more easy than that. Not sure I would have discovered the trivial approach in an interview situation when it didn't even occur to me at home on the couch.
I've only heard this anecdotally, but it is their best hiring indicator which is why they persist with it, despite it being very expensive.
If you want to get a job at Google you have be willing to be put up with these questions (both the ones make sense and the ones do not) just to show your dedication. I usually prep for such interviews roughly 3 months and I have worked as an SRE for a long time. Do not assume that we know all of these things on the top of our heads and do not feel stupid.
1. Find people who fit the current culture
2. For the interviewer to feel better about already having a job at Google. I remember one guy bragging about how much he made.
It's really not to find out if you're good at something. I have been offered jobs at some of the FAANMG companies so I'm not talking out of jealousy or whatever.
Personally, I had a lot of fun doing my interviews and learnt a lot while preparing them. I would recommend you to try them, it's gonna be interesting, even if you don't get the job.
It doesn't help I came in as an aqui-hire.
What makes no sense is small companies copying this process and then griping about finding talent.
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=analog+clock
Though I was surprised the autocomplete suggests "analog clock for kids learning"
I've never seen a watch where the hour ticks over in a single movement. Do those exist? I imagine it'd be very confusing to see the minute hand at 59 and the hour hand still at 0100 when it's 0159.
I'm also a bit puzzled about the trick question being mentioned at that. That's just primitibe (maybe I'm a little bit burned by that as in 5th grade or so, our teacher did a test, writing times on a sheet and making us calculate the angle between clock hands (and it was a lot of numbers on that sheet))
I actually overdid the learning as i assumed that the coding questions can't be that easy.
But at the end of the day, i'm still not working for google because yes the coding questions are not that hard but you have to convince 5 different people that you are a good fit.
Suddenly you excersize for learning how to know what the interviewer wants from you.
Is that wasted time? Definitly not. Loved the more focus learning approach.
Also, i'm now 10 years working in that industry, you don't stop looking for a new job. That interviewing skill is critical.
1. About fairly low-level details of computer networking, or
2. What would you do if your data doesn’t fit in memory?
I’ve been a successful developer for years and never had to deal with either of those problems.
Ultimately if I end up encountering a problem like that in my career, the honest answer is to pick up a book or begin reading through articles on solutions. Sadly that kind of answer seems to be frowned upon because it's better for you to lie about what you know than to admit you don't know the solution and figure out ways to rectify it.
The clock hand problem can be solved with the Rule of Three
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-multiplication#Rule_of_T...
Google employs the very elite of the elite. If you're working there you're probably at the very top of your field. Obviously not every can meet that standard and there's no shame in not being the absolute best.
Do all people with a @google.com email address keep telling themselves that?
How do you think the world leading research results that they do without world leading people?
There are definitely personalities around the company who think of themselves this way, but certainly not the majority. I think this kind of language in fact hurts us, because it creates a pronounced impostor syndrome around us, as we all _know_ we're mere mortals.
The reality of a SWE job at any BigCorp is quite mundane, and is more politics than coding most of the time.
Honestly our interview process should be more testing people how to write and comment on design docs and fill out a performance review, because that's what they seem to want the most out of us.
EDIT: Oh, also filtering through 2 pages of new emails, mostly automated, to find the two things that are relevant to your job.
I needed that laugh, thank you!
Look, a great deal of valuable software has been created by Google and other FAANGs. But I reckon most of that value has actually been created by the first or the best 5000 or maybe 10K employees at most. Most of the others in Google are enjoying the fruits of their genius, and they don't really have to perform any greater miracle than moving protocol buffers around. Still, no doubt that they are highly competent software developers and passed tough interviews. Not to imply that Google interviews can even distinguish between a genuinely talented programmer from a diligently-practicing-over-a-year leetcoder.
There are other companies besides Google. Who's to say, for starters, that any of the engineers at the members of FAAN, or Microsoft, or the unicorns, are any less elite?
I feel a little sorry for Google's developers. They're told they're brilliant but asked to write software to deliver adverts and track people. They could literally be curing cancer and putting people on Mars if they wanted, and yet they sit in Mountain View working out new things to do with the data about what I clicked on today. It's a huge waste of talent.
Your typical software engineer slept through the minimum amount of biology coursework required of them and has no special interest in chemistry beyond maybe like, a broscience-level grasp of pharmacology related to research compounds commonly viewed as smart drugs.
If bay area futurism woo is indicative of broader trends among software engineers, this person also has a vague, half-ironic commitment either to superintelligent AI immanentizing the eschaton or brain uploading becoming a hot-swappable replacement for the mortal coil within 20 years. Or both.
A belief that Google's workforce constitutes an addressable vat of brainpower of such raw g that, were it not for the idle concerns of developing adtech, it could turn to curing cancer is a very strange belief.
I'll explain why it sounds preposterous to me, and why the idea that google could change the fate of cancer research or missions to mars if not for its profit motives is patently unrealistic to the point of being insulting to everyone involved in this counterfactual.
1. Why cancer?
Number one cause of death is heart disease. Why not that? Surely the #1 problem is good enough for people currently working on adtech if the #2 problem is.
You said curing cancer, not "applying the numerical optimization expertise of a tiny fraction of google's workforce to the occasional omics problem in collaboration with a research lab" or "headhunting the PI of a lifesci research program to build an initiative at Google" or "throwing google infra at something other than Stadia". Even something far more obvious like "applying deep learning to diagnostics / early detection / etc."
These are the things Google can actually do, and they are the things Google already does. Examples: DeepMind for breast cancer screenings, Public Datasets program support for selected research. Still no cancer cure. So if you'd said that, well, they're doing it, to whatever extent they deem worth the prestige bump.
Unless they decide to become Microsoft and buy out entire sectors of applied biotech, they're not going to radically improve their hands-on involvement in lifesci relative to what they're already doing.
More, just ballpark the numbers. Google has 100k employees — "98771" in 2018-12 as per their SERP infobox. "A lot" of those employees absolutely do not by any stretch of the imagination possess the skillsets required to assist in meaningful ways on high-end cancer research, unless that work is conducted like some kind of wartime effort and the assistance is largely of a clerical nature.
And in the event that Google employees were being unilaterally drafted into this effort as grunts, the very first thing they'd do would be to crowdsource/outsource the bulk of the menial work to cheaper labor sources beyond Google. So their main contribution would undoubtedly be in building the scaffolding required to pass the buck.
2. Why Mars?
This constitutes a complete diversion of Google's autonomous driving and robotics people to an out of the blue project that they're out of position to handle. It would merely sabotage a division where Google is a market leader for the sake of starting up an incoherent, laggard mess in an area defined by maddening bottlenecks and complexity. Google has no substantial preexisting expertise in this area, afaik.
At one point they put up 30M USD in sponsorship prize money for a lunar lander competition, but that's about all that comes to mind. It also went pretty dismally. They had to repeatedly extend the deadline. Eventually the comp ran 11 years and ended in one launch -> one crash on the lunar surface. They threw a mil at the team as a consolation prize.
That project was more of an exercise in reifying the moonshot metaphor than anything else.
One far more recent indicator of how hard it is to make strides in this area is the DARPA Launch Challenge, intended to accelerate radical improvements to launch pipelines. It just closed without a winner. One team barely made it to the launchpad then scrubbed.
In terms of both social good that Google can do with its nearest preexisting R&D and profitability, it's clear that redirection would be disastrous. Autonomous vehicles are the play for them. This has nothing to do with the adtech people either way.
All in all, the relevance of Google to either of these problem areas is about what would be expected, cet par: not a lot. Modern work with any technical bent is hyper-specialized. There's no jump from literal cancer like adtech to actual cancer.
On top of that, adtech is largely a house of cards. You can't ever assume that 'data science' coupled to business requirements and marketing is in any way rigorous or indicative of the current state of the art in independent research. A lot of this work is pure smoke and mirrors operating on greater fool theory. To specialize in that sector is to specialize in window-dressing falsity. So it's not like you'd want adtech data jockeys touching subject matter that actually matters.
Parent comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23124327
There's an interesting implication in your statement. The inherent assumption is that the metrics which Google uses to hire interviews would be the definition of the best. In other words, if you'd use Google's interview process in the whole world - the filter of that would lead you to the "best of the best" and "not so the best".
I don't know the answer to it but you may want to consider this aspect before reaching the conclusion.