MNT Reform: The Campaign Is Live | Hacker News Reader

MNT Reform: The Campaign Is Live

crowdsupply.com

117 pointslelf45 comments

Great work mntmn! I love the no-compromises design - blob-free, mechanical keyboard, user-replacable batteries, open hardware... it's great. Nice work.

And a quick question: have you considered selling more parts separately? It would be nice to pick up the trackpad+controller, and maybe the keyboard too, for other projects.

Thanks, I’m honored to get your feedback. And yes, we’ll offer all parts separately and I hope they’ll be cloned, too!

Main link incl. video: https://www.crowdsupply.com/mnt/reform

Also, AMA!

Did you consider using DisplayPort as your, um, display port? Or would that also require a firmware blob?

Requires the same or similar controller blob (Xtensa) as HDMI on i.MX8M.

Edit: To explain, the external DP/HDMI TX shares an IP block and even the signal lines. This is also a reason why we’re using a MIPI DSI->eDP converter chip for the internal display, as that path is blob-free.

I wish there was a good blob free USB3 display adapter. Maybe we’ll have to make one.

Not to sound too negative - I love what you are doing - but using a MIPI DSI -> eDP bridge IC does not get rid of any proprietary blobs.

In practice, those bridge ICs contain general purpose MCU cores, and run a proprietary firmware blob. You can usually update it over I2C. So you've just shifted the blob from one part of the stack (AP firmware) to another (bridge IC firmware).

That is incorrect. There is no updatable firmware blob in the chip that we use: http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/sllseh2b/sllseh2b.pdf?&ts=158895831...

I am very familiar with this IC.

Following the progress of the Reform project has been fascinating.

Thanks a lot for making this and sharing frequent updates :)

I bought your ZZ9000 and I obviously like your work. But I do wish you focused on retro computing. I just can’t see this laptop going anywhere in terms of impact. The field is a black hole that consumes time & effort.

You’re funny.

"I’m funny how, I mean funny like I’m a clown?"

In all seriousness, I'd like to support you but I won't, not for this. As somebody else said, in this very thread, it doesn't really stand out and the alternatives are many.

Stick to what you do best.

Don't tell me what to do.

When you say "retro computing", what do you mean? I assume you have something specific in mind, and I'm curious what that is.

I don't think your request is particularly relevant to this HN post, though I may be missing the context since I'd never heard of MNT Research prior to today.

It would be nice to have UnixBench scores in your comparison table. I'm guessing the SoC in the reform won't be in the same league as current Intel laptop processors, but it would be nice to have some idea of what we're getting.

OK, I’ll look into that. Is that a good benchmark? Are there other meaningful ones?

What I like about UnixBench is that it covers I/O as well as raw CPU performance. (So you'd want to make sure it uses the SSD, not the SD card.) And it's open source (edit: actually checked the license now; looks like it's GPL2).

I'll let others weigh in with other benchmark suggestions.

UnixBench would be great. I have a bash script that runs several benchmarks and create a website: https://github.com/Cyclenerd/benchmark

You would have to remove Geekbench from Line 650 in the source code. Does not work with ARM.

I'd also be curious about approximate battery life. Personally, I'd rather a decent ARM SoC and longer battery life than a beefy x86 CPU that's going to drain the battery in two hours.

Have there been any significant changes since your description of the HW here https://mntre.com/media/reform_md/2020-01-18-finishing-refor...? (also, I just love that you incorporated the trackball, thank you).

1. Roughly how heavy is it? It looks big but not too dense.

2. How easy is it to remap keys on the keyboard and trackball? For example, I'd probably want to swap the Alt and Space keys, the Shift and Up/Del keys, and the Primary/Secondary Click and macro buttons. Are we talking config file change or manually patching firmware?

3. How generic is the SoM connector? Are there any existing alternative SoMs I might be able to stick in there?

4. How many times can I open the body without running into issues? For example, if I swap out the batteries every day for a year, am I going to run into problems?

5. It looks like you opted for a barrel jack instead of USB-PD for charging. Why'd you choose to go that route?

6. Why the lack of USB Type-C ports?

7. "The keyboard not only works as a USB HID device, but it also has a direct UART cable connection to the system controller on the motherboard. By pressing the Circle key, you can interact directly with the system controller, bypassing the main SoC." That sounds really cool. Do you have more info about that? How hackable is it?

Edit: I like where you're going with the project, and I think I could easily turn this into my daily driver. Keep up the great work!

I don't really have MNT's answers to your questions, but I do know that for (7) they have the source for the keyboard firmware on gittea here:

https://source.mntmn.com/MNT/reform/src/branch/master/reform...

Thanks for your questions and encouragement.

Answers:

1. ~1.9kg fully loaded with batteries, WiFi card and SSD.

2. Currently you need to rebuild the firmware, which is "make" and then "flash.sh", but it's absolutely feasible to make a nice keymap editor.

3. The connector itself is generic and cheap (SO-DIMM), you stick a bare PCB in it (card edge). There's currently no other SoM with this pinout, though. We'll work to change that.

4. Haven't run into issues yet, and opened and closed mine many many times.

5. Simplicity.

6. Type-A is still much more common. The next version could have Type-C or a mix possibly.

7. Totally hackable. The sources are already in our Git / on GitHub but I'll post an article about this during the campaign.

1. That's pretty damn good, especially given the size.

2. Since it's all in git, I'd consider `make && ./flash.sh` fine; that's not really any more difficult than a config file.

3. I particularly like the potential for switching architectures without needing a whole new device.

4. Awesome

5 & 6. I've been refusing to buy new portable electronics unless they have Type-C ports and support USB-PD, since it's simplified my life a lot--one charger for everything. That being said, I'm normally making that decision under the assumption that I won't be able to upgrade what I buy today, and I don't want it to hold me back tomorrow. That's not an issue with your device, but I'd definitely love to see USB-PD down the road, even if it's an external accessory or a DIY guide.

7. That's definitely something I'd love to learn more about. From my perspective, the integrated-yet-fully-hackable HIDs are key selling points.

Are you mainlining everything so a vanilla distro can install on this?

As far as get it, yes, he does, but currently not everything is at mainline Linux, according to this gist:

https://gist.github.com/mntmn/c1005bd9f4cbc53e71058f0a45084d...

how can We buyers be sure you will deliver the project? What is your experience? what device you previously delivered? there was a lot of kickstarter cool things that deliver poorly

He delivered ZZ9000 to many customers: https://mntre.com/media/ZZ9000_info_md/2019-08-09-ZZ9000-res...

You can check reports and many photos at his Mastodon: @mntmn@mastodon.social

In addition to the specific example l11r mentions: Crowdsupply is generally a lot more trustworthy than Kickstarter. They specialize in hardware products, understand that market and vet projects accordingly. I.e. here prototype devices have been made and distributed to users before the campaign went live.

I very much like the keyboard layout that gives more action to thumbs and some rest to pinkies.

I absolutely love the trackball and approach to replaceable batteries. Currently this device is a bit outside my price range, but I'll keep an eye on the project in the future and spread the word to friends who might be interested.

Unless it has a RYF certification, it doesn’t stand out from all the alternatives.

What alternatives are you thinking of? I don't know much about this niche, although I've come across System76 a few times over the years.

Off the top of my head, there are also the Librem laptops from Purism and the Vikings X200 laptop, the latter of which does have an RYF certification.

Are those actually comparable? Neither of those options appeal to me, but the MNT Reform does. I would say the biggest advantage of the MNT Reform is that it appears to be fully hackable, both hardware and software. I don't really get that impression from most of Purism's products or the Vikings X200

If that’s your priority, there was also the Novena, I think?

I have constantly be impressed by the progress of this project. I really like some of the design decisions, like the mechanical keyboard or the trackball.

But I have to say, while I really liked some of the early design sketches, the final design I find quite ugly.

I wish them success with this project and hope this can lead to more and potentially cheaper open source computing options in the future, but for now, I will have to pass.

That’s OK. Tastes differ wildly.

Yeah, of course.

And I do feel bad for being so harsh, because I really like the concept. It is just so chunky and looks no fun to lug around.

I do look forward though to maybe getting a copy of the trackball/keyboard to use with other devices.

Chunky isn't necessarily bad if it's light. It looks like there's a lot of empty space inside compared to modern non-repairable laptops.

Was i the only one who clicked through expecting to read about new monetary policy in Mongolia?

Oh, i was.

Still, this is a cool project, and i'm happy to have learned about it!

The hardware heroes we need. Amazing and the best laptop design in years.

Is there an option for clicky keyboard switches?

You can write me an email after backing and I'll see what we can do! (Clicky switches do exist)

is it possibile to replace the display with an e-ink one?

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