Noticias Hacker, like HN but in spanish
noticiashacker.com
noticiashacker.com
These arguments miss the point that Spanish-speaking people might want to discuss startups/business/technology/etc in Spanish with other Spanish-speaking people (whether or not the original content was written in Spanish), network with other Spanish-speaking people, collaborate and co-found companies with other Spanish-speaking people, and so on.
If you're going to start a company, or discuss technology, or whatever, there are benefits (as well as drawbacks) to doing that within a community of like-minded people. If you were born and raised in the US, would you go off to start a startup with two other guys from Tokyo whose culture and mindset might be vastly different from yours? Or would you do it with your local friends? Similarly, an entrepreneur from Spain might be a lot more comfortable starting a startup with some fellow Spaniards than Americans.
On the flipside, there are benefits to expanding your horizons and you might learn a thing or two from people outside your culture and social sphere who have different perspectives.
Because of that, I think the two versions can coexist nicely, rather than one being a substitute for the other.
Why can't this resource be appreciated for what it is: a resource for the Spanish speaking community that might be interested in technology, but are unable to pick up the language for whatever personal reasons they may have?
If I were to restrict my software business to only people who use my native language, I would only have 40 millions of potential customers instead of several hundred millions.
At best, it's a Quixotic effort.
At worst, it'll actually do harm to people it supposedly tries to serve by allowing them to stay in the comfort zone because that comfort zone is really, really small compared to richness of knowledge available in English, especially in topics like software engineering or startups. It's the law of unintended consequences.
Sure, learning to read English at a speed equal to reading my native language was a long and arduous process, but I only had to do it once. I reap benefits of that investment every day. When I think about it, it was the best investment of my life.
Does having a Polish or Portuguese section of Wikipedia harm people too?
I, for one, will use this to practice Spanish by reading topics with which I am familiar, and conversing with native speakers about them.
But beyond the irony of saying that establishing a Spanish-language tech community is a Quixotic effort, there are a lot more Spanish speakers than Polish. It's half the world. It's a really big community.
And I'm not just saying that because I'm happy to have someplace to practice my Spanish, either.
Language barriers should not be the directing the behavior on the web. The idea of "cloning" and having translated platforms is something I think is needed as long as it's sole objective isn't to be a window to specific language original content because it can be scarce even though it empowers the community.
Sadly the combination empowering the community and looking for language specific content usually is what makes translated platforms be popular but at the same time kills them.
I think the key for successful non-english communities is to let go the empowerment model and work in a community without language or geographical limitations, where the focus is set to distribute and discuss information regardless of original language and open to discuss in whatever language needed.
I grant you your point, of course: It's fair enough to say that lack of English is a disadvantage - but I don't think the answer is to say there shouldn't be a more vibrant Spanish-language community than there has been.
I'm not against a spanish HN or any other website in a mother tongue, but wouldn't be better for everyone if Latin American Hackers would become fluent in English? Maybe then US companies could open up offices in Latin America, hire the best programmers, pay maybe less than what we pay now, etc.
I have been lucky to be born in a region with 2 official languages and more lucky to have a 3rd language in my family and being able to learn English and French in school. But... this is not normal in the rest of Europe.
In any case, I am not sure if I have understood correctly your last sentence. Did you mean "pay maybe more"? I am not sure of what you are implying...
"They took err jerb!!!"
Technically we're talking about the same amount of money (more than they are paid now, less than a programmer in Silicon Valley) but framing does matter.
[Note: I can't think of a less argumentative way to express that without being a lot less succinct. It's not meant as a flame, really.]
Addendum on rereading, because I think it matters: For a Pole to learn English to open up career opportunities has a whole lot less historical baggage connected with it than for a Latin American to do so, and this is over and above the fact that there are ten times as many speakers of Spanish as speakers of Polish.
It would also be better for everyone if humanity as a whole switched to renewable energy sources next year. Unfortunately there's the small matter of feasibility. Learning a language is not trivial for everyone.
I doubt that. The cost would be devastating. With current renewable energy technologies, we'd only generate a fraction of the power we use even after we pave the wilderness with windmills.
Spanish is the 3rd language in the world, people! Most of you would not hesitate to learn chinese if you had the chance to do some business or go live in China, and that's the 2nd language! Stop the hypocrisy!
- Those who agree with this site.
- Those who disagree "because information about technology is mostly in english".
- Those who disagree "because it will split the community".
- Those who are english fans.
Those who push for everyone to speak english because information about technology is mostly in english.. may I point at the simmilarity of your position with a circular logical pattern? "Information about technology is in english, because no information is produced in other languages. You shouldn't produce information in other languages, because information about technology is mostly in english." Need I say more? Hope not, I regard everyone in this site as fairly intelligent to see the absurdity of such a statement.
To those who say that this kind of site will split the community, think about it this way: more people, who have no time to learn english, cannot because of economic/time reasons, or maybe just want to know about things and contribute in an easy way, will be able to do so. Of course, if we're talking about a "technological elite" (which I imagine you consider yourself part of, since you recognize the need for a unified language), will still have english as a requirement. But the last time I checked, HN was not about that elite, but about a broad spectrum of subjects (and I dare you to argument about the need of speaking in english to talk about Lybia and the Internet blackout there, with several political and sociological implications, not just the technological ones)
And for those english fans, greetings. I'm one, and I'm from Argentina. But I acknowledge the existance of human beings outside the United States or England. Please, open your mind to other ways of thinking. Remember: there are some cognitive processes in some language, which are not possible in other languages. That alone should prompt you to congratulate the existance of as many clones of HN in as many languages as possible.
If I write it in German or Chinese or Spanish, they can't.
So.. what you're saying is that you prioritize programmers in Latvia and India, over your fellow citizens and the community of programmers in your country?
And I'm not only talking about proffessional developers, but also CS students. As I wrote, I'm not denying that to be proficient in CS, you need to know english nowadays. I'm saying that information should be available in other languages as well.
Hacker News, como NH pero en inglés (news.ycombinator.com) 4 puntos, entregado por manelik hace 41 minutos | 2 comentarios
(In case you don't speak Spanish, this is: Hacker News, like NH but in English.)
My rationale was similiar to the OP's: most Israeli techies have no problem reading English, but when it comes to posting comments or writing blogs, lots would prefer Hebrew. Still, there are differences between the two sites: a site in Spanish has lots more potential HNers, but on the other hand, a site in Heberw has the benefit of supplying Israeli-specific news.
While my site hasn't yet taken off, I'm certainly encouraged by similar efforts that do succeed. So kudos to the OP, and good luck!
Personally I think that the language doesn't really matters and sharing stuff in english is the nearest thing to send a global message, but it's annoying that so many people speak the language and our blog community is so poor.
I just know I'm tired of Engadget and Boing Boing copycats.
We just ask that the comments and opinions are made in Spanish.
Just pure programming and a little of startups. Good stuff.
Some will call it pride, others will call a generalized difficulty or lack of desire to learn different languages. Opinions will be divided in that, however, the fact is that every single thing in Spain is translated/dubbed. For instance, there is/was also barrapunto, which is the Spanish version of slashdot (being that the word barrapunto is the literal translation of slashdot).
A site in English will have more users and therefore more information, however, a site in Spanish will reach far more Spaniards and therefore end up being more useful for most Spaniards. Just my two cents.
Note: I'm not from an english-speaking country either.
I have some thoughts. Its good to see there are a tool for Spanish-spoken hackers because you can meet some cool people near you place and build a community, which i believe the REASON HN exists. When i've discovered HN, i thought this was really awesome and came to be addicted to all this cool stuff. The biggest problem about this, is that much of the spanish-spoken HN users doesnt know each other. I can count with at much 10 hackers that i know in person and know they visit HN.
Communities are organized as cell. When you born you belong to the first cell called family. When you show some interests like Basketball or Videogames, you know people, get accepted and now belong now another cell. I can see Noticias Hacker would be some cell that will be grouping all the best hacks and news about LatinAmerican stuff, and eventually help to know about key players in the ecosystem. Amazing when you need to catch up some attention from SV Angels and Press coverage.
And as Android Developer, i don't believe you need to forget English(if you want to develop stuff you need to learn English and build it. in English), but both languages aren't both exclusive mutually. And in some way, know two languages makes you more smart.
This site is invaluable to get the perspective of latin american hackers and users, specially if you are not in a spanish speaking country.
This could help so many startups that are mainly english based to expand and offer services to spanish speaking customers.
After reading http://www.amazon.com/Latino-Link-Building-Communities-ebook... there is a wave of users that speak spanish and they are going to need services.
You don't have to help clients if you don't like money, success, etc...
Embrace communication people. (Yes, I plan on learning other languages)
I've been spoiled by the HN site.. :P It's just so... clean.. and tidy..
EDIT: It's IE. Firefox shows the content centered in the screen.
Kudos to whomever created this, to help level up those resources.
And I'm a huge fan of pushing everyone to learn english.. but I wish we had our own content in spanish as well. It would really boost the industry in South America.
As a bonus for those of us who learned or are learning Spanish, it's also a great way to practice the language. :)
now how do you define the make-dream-happen macro?
But by having 2 communities we all lose. The spanish hackers will lose on all the great english content and the english hackers will lose on all the great spanish content.
This is how things are right now. If you want to be a programmer and compete in a global market, you need to know English.
It's not good or bad but if 20 years from now, the de facto language becomes French or German, I will learn it. For now, we are lucky that we have a ONE language development community all over the world.
Community means plurality as well, more so related to language when we're talking about a global one. And it's not like we're talking about learning Navajo. Spanish is the 3rd most used language in the entire world!
My point is, you want to blog/collaborate in spanish/frensh or whatever language? Go for it. But you have just considerably shrunk your audience and network and greatly diminished your chances of giving or getting help.
PS: Wikipedia is different than code and is not a good analogy. If I want to learn about Cancer/Golden Retriever/Panama Canal/etc.. then yes, I want to read it in my native language.
Wow, just Wow. Thanks HN for all the input! Thank you very much!
The debate contained in this post is extremely interesting and there is a lot to learn about the different point of views about language barriers, culture and communities!
I guess I decided to work on this when I learned that a lot of my fellow latin american hackers read HN every day but rarely participate or post new links. Felling that having a place to share new projects and interesting notes in my own language would be cool I decided to start this a couple of weeks ago.
The code is open source and hosted here: https://github.com/DFectuoso/Noticias-HAcker mostly in english! I think that will add a lot to the conversation: I am not saying don't learn english, just trying to generate a community where people feel confident because they are talking in their own language.
Hopefully this will motivate more and more people to share and talk about awesome stuff!
But kudos for getting it this far! I'll be reading it daily!
Edit for clarity: check my own comments. I swear, it's like I'm not paying attention at all sometimes.
The source is open source and mostly in english :D @ https://github.com/DFectuoso/Noticias-HAcker
I appreciate the need to cater for different audiences but I think it would be more beneficial for all concerned to encourage people interested in technology to learn to communicate about it in English.
Does this looks realistic to you? considering that the number of good Spanish hackers to-be and that-are is not small.
But it is a fact that English is the language of technology (and science). If you want to participate then you really need to be familiar with the lingo. This is why I said "love it or hate it".
If you want to be a good hacker then you must learn English because there's a huge amount of advice on the web in English to help you. If you can't read it then you're missing out.
Starting a community in another language works in the short term, but it really isn't productive in the long term (either for the members of that community or the wider community). This was the key point I was making.
To address your specific point: what is six months? I've spent over 20 years learning to program in various languages. Why not spend six months learning English so that you can participate with the global programming community?
Plus, believe me when I say, not every Mexican teenager guy/gal with skills have the resources to pay a training course like the one you suggest (I didn't, learnt it on my own, took many years, still not perfect though).
I'm arguing for people hanging out in English forums rather than hanging out in forums designed to cater to their own language.
But I do take your point that good hackers will eventually learn English. I'm suggesting that this is by necessity - it's not a language you can ignore if you work in the technology sector.