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Comment by vl | Hacker News Reader

Middle class doesn’t shop at Neiman Marcus though.

I took a shortcut through my local Neiman Marcus last year (I wanted a Five-Guys burger), and looking at what they had for sale and their prices, I couldn't help but think "Even if you're super rich, you'd be nuts to shop here."

They had a black t-shirt with some rhinestones (presumably) on it for $5000. It was probably from some famous designer, but still .. $5000 for a t-shirt that had been gone over with a BeDazzler?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9m766NNpwVg

> probably from some famous designer

I mean that's it in its entirety right? Otherwise by similar reduction, a Picasso is just some acrylic on canvas.

But I’d wager 90% of people know who Picasso was and can recognise his work.

But what percentage of the general public can spot a Nieman Marcus buy from a thrift-store find?

i bet more people in the world recognize the Gucci logo than can recognize a Picasso.

Unlikely. There are entire countries who could not care less about Gucci. Hell, I might not be able to recognize it's logo.

Which countries did you have in mind and why would they care about Picasso? Western art history is probably not all that common of a study subject around the world.

Most? I did not study Picasso in Russia, but he is famous enough to be known there.

true, a picasso is just acrylic on canvass but it's not acrylic on canvass mass produced in a factory.

If Miuccia Prada herself sewed together a tshirt and painstakingly put on the rhinestones with much thought, then no one would be questioning the price.

Maybe expensive whisky or wine is a better comparison. They're both mass produced and their value derives more from scarcity than better worksmanship.

That wasn't always true.

When I started interviewing out of grad school, I REALLY stretched to go buy a nice suit from Neiman-Marcus, a Valentino at $700 in 1995. The suit was gorgeous and the tailor at N-M did a beautiful job adjusting it to me.

I could be considered, barely, middle-class--certainly the lower end at best. The suit absolutely paid for itself many times over--that's a different set of stories.

That Valentino is now closer to $5,000. Inflation says that Valentino should be about $1,200. I suspect that even at $1,200 most students couldn't stretch for it today.

So, is Neiman-Marcus to blame for going further upscale given that they probably can't make any money in the middle anymore?

All I've taken away from this is Valentino is more expensive in 2020 than it should be. By nature of you even being physically close enough to a Neiman Marcus in 1995, chances are you were of higher income than the rest of the country. They're still located in mostly more wealthy areas of the country.

If you consider driving 3+ hours close ... And a "grad student" is generally damn poor (and I was) ...

My point was that Neiman-Marcus had a product (properly fitted business suits) that was actually (probably upper) middle class. And that product, in fact, served its purpose really well.

People still underestimate the effect that an excellent suit has on people's perception of you in business. Being tech, I normally cruise around in really casual wear. However, investor meetings demand something a little more upscale so I'm pulling out my nice suit. I chuckle at the difference in behavior of the people around me (both employees and strangers) when I show up for work in a suit.

You valued and knew to value a suit for your purposes in 1995. Most people now or in 1995 did not drive three hours to buy a suit. The number of jobs that require a suit for everyday use is definitely down vs 1995 and you can rent a suit (not vouching for fit here) if you need one for interviews which is the primary use for most people who do not wear one on a daily basis.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you said on making a good impression but that doesn't change anything on the fact that Neiman Marcus has never been for middle class shoppers. A one-off purchase does not make a customer base.

>> is Neiman-Marcus to blame for going further upscale

You made one purchase at N-M 25 years ago, and from that single experience, you're generalizing the entire merchandising strategy of the brand ever since then?

And your premise is false anyway. The 1 and only Valentino suit currently available at neimanmarcus.com costs $1173, which is less than $1200:

https://www.neimanmarcus.com/search.jsp?aq=valenti&dq=valent...

I think the suggestion here is that they used to, until the American Middle Class was forcibly merged into the American Lower Middle Class.

But they still didn't. I went into Neiman Marcus in Dallas in 1991, just to look around. I found a leather jacket, with red... I'm not even sure what to call it. Paint? It was a layer on top of the leather, not dye. It looked very tacky. And it was $1000. In 1991. Well, even in 1991, the middle class had a lot less expensive places to buy tacky-looking junk.

No, Neiman Marcus has always been an upper crust store with extravagant Christmas catalogs.

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