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Comment by jswinghammer | Hacker News Reader

I think salary history is usually the strongest card you have. If I make X at my current job you will need to make me a comparable offer or you don't get me. It takes awhile to get there but if you make sure you get yearly raises it won't take long. I would usually quit without a yearly raise or a very good explanation.

The market is in your favor as a programmer. If you have even the hint of a clue it's even better. I remember 4-5 years ago being on a phone screen and was asked what if any books I was reading and when I listed them he said "The job is yours' if you want it." I didn't but it was enlightening. I walked into my bosses office the next day and said I want a 20k raise and got it.

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Does anybody have any experience of withholding what their current salary is when asked? I'm a terrible negotiator by my own admission and always blurt out what I'm on immediately when asked in interviews or by recruiting agents (and I'm tediously honest enough to actually say the real value and not a 10% increase that all my friends tell me to add).

If I turned round and said 'I'm sorry, that information's irrelevant,' what would happen?

>If I turned round and said 'I'm sorry, that information's irrelevant,' what would happen?

Could you ignore the question and give them the information that you want instead?

Interviewer: "What salary are you currently getting?" You: "I'm expecting $120k for this position"

It's best not to lead with an offer. Make them offer first, no matter how long it takes/how far down the line you have to go. Giving your upper range like that gives them an easy excuse to dismiss you.

Actually it was on HN some time ago that it is in your benefit to 'anchor' the salary discussion around the salary that you want to get. The trick to it is to quote a high enough number that is more than you want to get (so you can negotiate down), but that fact that you quoted it will anchor the negotiations around your number, not theirs.

I've done this a lot during interviews, and results vary greatly. Most people expect an answer to this question, and often times I found people getting confused (and even a little offended) because I wouldn't give it.

My generic response is usually something along the lines of "Well, they're two different positions, so I'm not comfortable giving out that information. Do you have a range in mind?"

Every time I ended up mentioning what my salary is, I've gotten screwed (rightfully so), and I've never been shown the door for refusing to reveal it. It's always helped in the long run.

"Let me check my confidentiality agreement to make sure that won't get me in trouble and I'll get back to you"

On my last job change I went from games development to a trading software gig. As an experienced games developer I as making less than £30K and I told the recruiter I wouldn't consider anything in finance for less than £45K. When he said that it was a huge jump in salary and that I would never get it I told him that it was a different industry and that game programmers are often underpaid. Turns out the entry level positions were all starting from £40k and I got a job for 2x what I was making before. Now, I have to add that I really didn't care if I got the job or not since I was hating myself for going to finance and I actually bullied the recruiter to work harder to find a role that suited me. Being able to walk out on a deal is a powerful motivator.

Tell them that the exact terms and projects of your former employment are confidential to that employer and you're not at liberty to discuss details.

When they push back and say they HAVE to know your previous salary, you can tell them your compensation range over the last five years was [$X , $Y] where X is the highest base salary you got in the past 5 years and Y is your highest total compensation during that time.

Total compensation is your salary + the sum of all the cash you would have to pay to replicate all the perks of your current job (401k matching, Covered parking at the office, Coffee, Office supplies, ... everything you can think of)

This gives them a range of numbers (which they're looking for) that are the most favorable to you.

Well you don't have to be dishonest but I would just suggest saying that I'm making X but won't leave my current job for less than Y. I typically would say something like "I'm not really needing to move. I like my current employer and they like me."

"Out of professional courtesy, I do not answer competitively sensitive questions about my employer's policies. Which is a good thing, because some day, someone is going to ask me about your's."

Perfect.

I've not had the chance to try it, but I like the idea of turning it around:

"Sure, but first _you_ give _me_ a detailed histogram of salaries for your employees [in similar positions/rank]"

I suspect you won't get that histogram, and they'll be offended you asked. Maybe they'll understand why you don't want to share your salary.

They'll probably be offended. If they ask, just answer, because the kind of people who ask that question are generally not in the mood for mind games. Direct questions deserve direct answers. If you're looking for a salary jump, just say that, and be prepared to justify it. If you can't back it up, you were just bluffing anyway. Don't base your negotiating strategy on a bluff.

It's not a mind game. It's a simple truth. It is totally irrelevant.

Asking is it's own mind game, because they're not asking in good faith, they're asking so they can bully you into accepting a lesser offer. They either don't know what is fair OR they do but want to go "Well we don't pay more then 10% of what you're already on" which has NOTHING to do with your value.

It's a complex truth. Irrelevant or not, you know that whatever figure you give is likely to be what they offer. So you'd just answer if it was the figure you want. Refusing to answer signals that you're asking for more than you used to make. And it's a pretty clear signal. It's not like they'll just go, "Hey, I guess you're right, wonder why I asked in the first place?"

They've already got it in their minds that you're supposed to get the same old salary. It's not so much bullying as just a different perspective on the world. A mindset. You can try to be that guy who finally shows them the light, or you can look at your options in a pragmatic sense. And creating conflict with the guy interviewing you is not super pragmatic.

Edit: One other point. Something is worth what people will pay, by definition. If someone offers you less than you're worth, then by definition you have a better option. So go take the better option. If everyone is offering you the same figure, then by definition that's what you're worth.

Why not just ask what you want, then? If you're leaving somewhere, there's probably a good chance it's about money. Even if it's not, the only reason to ask in this fashion is because every now and then you get someone who low balls themselves.

Otherwise saying "What do you want?" is just as useful without the judgmental overtones of not looking above your station.

If you feel like you're undervalued by 50%, it might be easiest to get a 10-15% bump at a new employer every few years until you're finally caught up. Getting one employer to go for the 50% increase overnight seems significantly harder to arrange.

People who study negotiation have this concept called the “anchoring effect”—the first number that gets thrown out becomes very prominent in the other party’s mind and affects their view of the deal. If I’m on the “employee” side of the negotiation, I want that first number to be as high as I can reasonably justify.

I have had people get offended, but you don't want to work for them.

I have had a recruiter just get totally confused when I wouldn't tell him. He refused to take no for an answer until I said I was walking out. The same recruiter then tried to tell me I wouldn't be able to get paid what I wanted and would barely get ${10K<Current}. I knew I was already underpaid... He was basically talking shit.

People only want to know for ONE reason: to peg you at a salary so they don't 'overspend'. Do you want to be at a job that doesn't want to pay what you're worth because they think they can manipulate their way out of it?

Out of curiosity, what were titles of the books?

4-5 years ago would have been a mix of books about 19th century American philosophy, a book or two on foreign policy, common lisp, and a few books on SQL tuning on different RDMSs.

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