Keeping bees means thinking about landscape as a system | Hacker News Reader

Keeping bees means thinking about landscape as a system

aeon.co

113 pointsprostoalex32 comments

It's nice the possible detrimental aspect on native wild species gets brought to attention more especially given the biodiversity crisis. I didn't used to know anything about the matter until I met a biologist studying the rarer local species here and the negative effects of honey bee keeping is one of his pet peeves. As laid out shortly in the article, the general conclusion is that in the best case scenario honeybees don't have an effect on the others, but otherwise the effect is negative and on average it is probably negative. Surely this needs to be studied more, but with what is currently knownn it looks like it's not going to turn the positive way suddenly.

Which can lead to painful discussions. Around here there's been a bit of a rise in the past years of hobbyist beekeepers. Most of them truly believe they are doing something good for bees, plants, even biodiversity and are pretty dedicated in taking care of them, and really only with good itentions. But if you then tell them about the facts, well, you can imagine how you feel when you think you were doing good and it turns out to be possibly not so good at all. Some are just sad but accept. Others get enraged and straight out deny the science (without proper arguments).

What do you think of these types of things https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gNncDK7MXHo/VRCXCXz6byI/AAAAAAAAJ...

Don't know a whole lot about it, but as far as I can tell it's pretty good. Normally when I see one it gets used heavily; the holes by all kinds of mason bees and the rest as shelter/housing for other insects. Only possible problem: the wood shouldn't be treated (as a precaution, not sure if there is actual impact of chemicals on the bees in it). And when birds like woodpeckers discover this it's a feast and they will empty the whole thing but that's sort of natural in that it's normal behavior. But a construction like this of course makes it extra easy for them. Can be circumvented with steel wire 10cm in front of it.

Having a bee house (for mason bees) has worked very well for us. Harvesting the cocoons in fall helps prevent concentration and spread of parasites, so I find the split-and-drilled layered wooden blocks work very well and pay for themselves over time.

I've heard some same the solid drilled wood, though cost-effective, can make the problem worse (they call them "bee tombs" though I suspect it's a bit hyperbolic).

Agree with stinos about coarse bird mesh and using non-treated wood, but it hasn't been a problem for us.

Local biodiversity only truly matters if it is part of the food chain. The reason why we care about bees is because of the oversized impact they have on our food supply. Local biodiversity is hardly a priority if you are living in a city and all flora and fauna are manually maintained. The new condo building next door built on top of a green space would have a much greater effect on local biodiversity than a couple hundred amateur bee keepers.

When I was 7, my (amazing) elementary schoolteacher told us about bees. I went back home and told my father that I wanted to beekeep. He knew how stubborn I was back then and decided to fulfill my request. For the past ~35 years, he has been a very successful beekeeper (as a hobby), and I spent half of that time more or less helping him, and learning a ton about bees.

I can tell you that bees are fascinating, and that indeed learning about them makes you appreciate nature in general, and how everything is tied together.

I don't know if it's a general rule, but if you are a parent, please consider beekeeping as a way to teach many invaluable things to your kids. If you have no physical space to do that, befriend someone with a small space in the countryside and beekeep there. It's not hard. It will be immensely rewarding. And the honey you will "steal" from these bees will be the tastiest thing ever.

I look forward to my kid reaching 7. As a two year old, her squeals of delight at watching bumblebess warm my heart.

I heartily encourage this! Moreover, consider mason bees or leafcutter bees. Solitary bees are easier to raise (very easy, in fact), some species are 80x as effective in pollination as honey bees, they are very very docile, many may also be native to where you live (which I don't mean as a doctrinal requirement, but it suggests suitability as well as providing some good opportunities to study and experiment... we live in the Pacific NW of the US).

We've had mason bees for the last 4-5 yrs, which help with our backyard permaculture orchard/garden. I involved my kids (daughter about 7 at the time, son 10). Both loved it and learned a lot along the way.

Cost to start is low. Time investment also low. Check out Crown Bees (no financial affiliation) or search around for more info.

(disclaimer: we're just starting with leafcutters, but I've heard similarly great things about them)

For literally years my plan has been that the first thing I’m doing when moving out of the Bay Area is setting up a hive.

That step is taking a long time though...

You can’t just keep bees anywhere though, there’s a lot of permits and inspections that have to be done to allow for a proper hive.

You didn't need much in Italy 35 years ago. I suspect things have changed there, and permits etc. might be required in most places today. However, let's say San Francisco [0]:

> San Francisco (City) currently allows urban beekeeping without any specific permit or registration requirements. However, in some cases bees can pose significant health and safety risks. To avoid conflict, beekeepers should manage their colonies in a way that is sensitive to surrounding areas and neighbors.

[0]: https://www.sfbee.org/beekeeping/code-of-conduct/

It must depend on where you live - Utah does have a basic registration to be a beekeeper, but that is all. Fill out a form once a year, and you're good.

Where I live (Ontario) all you need is money for a nuc. The only permits and inspections are if you want to sell honey commercially.

Of course it's a general rule, you see it everywhere. All parents should keep bees for a proper education of their children.

Someone should make an app for spaceless people to find spaceceful countryside friends to help keep their bees.

There is an intersting development here in Sweden is that some beekeepers don't use the box-type hives anymore and instead opts for a "log"-hive, basically an elongated coffin on legs ment to simulate a hollow log. These don't use frames, only thin wooden strips on ledges near the lid, nor do they have any type of seperation of nursery combs from honey combs. Honey production is lower and harvesting is much harder so this style of beekeeping tends to be more hands off. Instead the primary function is using bees as polinators. This can be a great way to start beekeeping with very little investment.

Even easier, and maybe more inpactfull, is to bury small clay pots upside down in your garden with the little hole in the bottom (now top, since the pot is upside down) exposed. If you are lucky bumblebees will move in. There are even colony building bumblebees where I live. Bumblebees are superior polinators as they are more resilient to cold and rain. Where I live the (italian) honeybees stay inside the hive if there is even a chance of rain, while the bumblebees will go out in any weather.

Ah yes, this has gained some appeal in the US as well (we call them top bar hives). I had one for several years and it was really cool how the bees would freestyle their wax comb designs (shape, period, cell size, regularity) since they didn't have the usual constraints of foundation or a frame like you find in a normal hive. Worth experimenting with as a beekeeper - a little harder to do as you said, but also cheaper.

I used top bar hives for a while and now use Warre style, which is sort of a blend of langstroth and top bar. It’s frameless, but in stacked boxes, where you harvest the top box all at once (brood should be at the bottom).

Top bar hives, now I know what words will work when searching. In case you harvested honey, how did you extract it? I hear bare combs are hard to centrifuge as the comb breaks apart. Some people use fruit presses here.

Yes, that's pretty much how you do it. Since there's no frame to mechanically support the comb during centrifuging, you pretty much have to crush the comb and strain the honey from it.

Because of the lack of mechanical support, it can also make working top bar hives difficult in hot summers -- the heat is just enough to soften the wax if it's out too long, and it can really compromise its structure. Makes for a good extra challenge :)

I'd think you'd also have an easy time cutting it up to sell as comb honey.

That style is not very popular here as our honey tend to crystalize and set very quickly. This comes down to what flowers the bees have access to, and what ratio of fructose and glucose sugars those flowers produce. I guess we get more glucose here in the north, but honey from for example accacia flowers stays runny forever. This style of honey is popular with our middle east immigrants, I guess that's what they are used to from home.

We have lots of bumblebees on our property in Norway. We just leave some parts of the garden completely untouched, with a rich variety of wild plants growing, and they’ll move in there and seemingly thrive well.

I've done something similar. At the side of the house I had a patch of around 50m^2 (I think...). Last year in spring I sowed a bunch of wildflower seeds bought from a local garden supplies store. It already bloomed quite nicely last summer but this spring it has already turned into an explosion of colorful flowers.

Also doesn't require much maintenance so far (which was one of the goals for that patch :) ). Before sowing it last spring I had it covered up for the winter with this tarp that still allows water through, after carefully removing all the weeds and plowing it in the fall. This year, as spring was slowing setting on, I removed the bigger pieces of dead material and sowed some extra seeds on bald spots. Still waiting if that is taking hold.

I'm pretty happy with how it turned out so far, as are the (humble)bees, butterflies, ...

This is a great strategy

> If you are lucky bumblebees will move in.

Does this potentially attract other hole-dwelling insects like yellowjackets?

I hang a fake wasp nest in my yard, it keeps wasps away but doesn't impact honeybees. (I recently bought a nice looking wicker one, but used to just hang a brown bag that looked like a nest)

> I hang a fake wasp nest in my yard, it keeps wasps away but doesn't impact honeybees. (I recently bought a nice looking wicker one, but used to just hang a brown bag that looked like a nest)

Thanks! Seems like a reasonable approach. We had thought about doing this, though the only wasps we have around are relatively harmless mud daubers.

Wow, that actually works?!?

Yeah it works for me. 2 years ago I ran the lawnmower over a ground nest (I didn't realize was there) and got stung 15+ times...I did a bunch of research and read that wasps will avoid competition and build their nest at least 100-300ft from the closest large nest. Last year there were no nests that I was aware of in my yard.

Well yes. I'd put a brick over the pot if that happens.

Good points about engaging in this work has changed the ways the author both thinks and feels about the landscape and ecosystem.

We've been learning about permaculture (old school Holzer, Mollison, Hemenway style) and small-scale homesteading for about 8 yrs now. Started from nearly scratch, in terms of practical gardening.

Every bit of work I've done with bees (solitary mason bees) and other permaculture (garden, orchard, efficient irrigation solutions, swaling, synergistic plantings, etc) has been fascinating.

The permaculture philosophy itself is more broadly-applicable than agriculture, in terms of a systems based view, but a lot of the practical instantiations are in ag, heating, irrigation, animal husbandry, etc. There's a lot on offer for many people who would be attracted to HN. E.g. looking at the thermodynamic aspects of siting water tanks, passive solar, masonry stoves, etc (physics and biomed background b4 software). Cost-wise and energetically a lot more scalable than widely existing solutions.

Also improved my perceptive ability and appreciation for natural surroundings and different human landscapes.

Anyhow, I'll get down off my soapbox now, but it's been a surprisingly rich vein of practical innovation and fun.

If you're curious, check out "Gaia's Garden" by Hemenway or one of Bill Mollison's books (former in Portland, so small yards, latter doing more wide-reaching stuff in Australia and developing nations).

Colony collapse disorder fascinates me. It sounds like the beginning of a horror movie plot. Perhaps it is.

One thing that strikes me is that the hive is essentially in great working order - fully stocked. It seems to me nothing directly nefarious is occurring because why not take the food?

Honey bees will remove (throw away) larvae infected with certain bacteria from the hive. Given this I wonder if workers themselves could socially distance and leave the hive when ill. With colony collapse disorder being the case where the outbreak was total and the infected all succumbed and therefore never came back.

Then again maybe I've just been in lockdown for too long!

Edit: I implied there is always a fully stocked hive after CCD. That's not the case.

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