Comment by AegirLeet | Hacker News Reader

Comment by AegirLeet | Hacker News Reader

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RoR and Django are probably the closest (Laravel was inspired by RoR). Still, I don't think they support all those features.

Like I can't find any official RoR support for payments, full text search, encryption, pagination, scheduled tasks or building CLI commands.

With Django, full text search seems limited. It supports PostgreSQL, but I couldn't find first-party integration for Algolia, Solr, Elasticsearch etc. or a generic way to add backends (pluggable drivers) for them. There's support for WebSockets through Django Channels, but it seems a lot more basic than Laravel's broadcasting system. No official support for queued jobs or schedules?

Revel doesn't seem to have support for building CLI commands, encryption, emails, pagination etc. Apparently, any kind of database access or ORM isn't even first-party?

The inclusion of Actix in this list confuses me. From what I understand, Actix isn't a web framework at all, it's more like a foundation for using the actor model.

(I didn't exhaustively analyze everything, there's certainly more things missing from some of those frameworks)

Why would RoR bake payments support into the framework? RoR is there to tackle common web application tasks, payments is there for maybe 30% of web apps / services. There's an active debate on what popular libraries should be included in Rails, and all the features you listed can be found in libraries if they aren't in Rails already.

> Why would RoR bake payments support into the framework?

I'm not saying they should, just comparing features for the sake of demonstrating that the functionality that's present in modern PHP frameworks isn't readily available in just any random framework in any random language.

This is the same kind of argument used to prove that Macs are actually cheaper than PCs. Start from the hardware specs of a particular Mac model and configure a PC to match those exactly. It will probably be more expensive than the Mac.

The thing is that nobody would choose that configuration for the PC under normal circumstances. Normally you would spec it based on your actual use case and the PC would end up both cheaper than the Mac and better suited to the use case.

I'm not sure that example is entirely true. A PC would probably still be cheaper, assuming you don't insist on getting exactly the same components and are OK with, say, substituting the Mac's RAM supplied by vendor X with an equivalent product from vendor Y (same specs).

Sorry, the point I was originally trying to make might have gotten lost in all the discussion about specific features.

It was in response to this:

>> choosing php for a new project is a no-brianer. The only other 2 stacks to which I can compare it are the Spring stack of Java or .NET core

> This is absolutely not the case, and you know it. Almost every language has a wealth of HTTP tools and frameworks, and many of them come built-in.

The way I read it, this comment claims that everything that can be done in PHP using PHP frameworks could also be done in almost any other language using one or several frameworks written in that language. In my experience, this simply isn't true. There are other frameworks in other languages that have a feature set similar/equal/maybe superior to what Symfony or Laravel offer in PHP, but those are very rare. Like "there's maybe 2 or 3 of them in existence" kind of rare. Rails, Django, maybe one or two more? It's a short list. Again, not exactly "almost every language" and all that.

Of course, any language could have frameworks offering those kinds of features, but in reality, most simply don't. For a new web project, PHP, Ruby or Python are still fine choices if you're comfortable using those languages. There's nothing wrong with using, say, Go instead. But to claim that Go (just using it as an example here, not trying to criticize Go in particular) just has one or several web frameworks lying around that can do what Laravel, Rails or Django can is simply dishonest.

Actix-web is a web framework, but a rather lightweight one. It doesn't really compare to django/rails/laravel.

Python has an Elasticsearch API available as a package, which is probably why it's not packaged in with Django.

also, wtf payment integration? if i need payment integration, there are myriad of libraries to chose. i don't need my web framework to decide that for me.

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