I realize the audience here is probably mostly younger folks but 10 years doing anything is not that much time IMO.
I think a 3rd or 4th burnout at 30 years of service is a lot harder to recover from, but I’m biased from my own experience.
Yet...Here i am.
My two cents: I find joy doing challenging work on products that are useful to a bunch of people without needing to be "the next big thing". But what I find more joy in is my life outside of work, in spending time with and taking care of my extended family (including my close friends). The most success I've had with this so far has been at a big tech company. This is for a number of reasons: the product I work on is more likely to be useful to lots of people that way (because a lot of the marketing work has been done already), which also makes the work challenging (because scale brings challenges), and compensation and work-life balance are good so I can spend a lot of low-stress time focusing on family. I personally find the most joy working on things that mostly make money through charging people money for services because it feels like the most honest way for my salary to be paid, but I'm not sure how much that relates to this, it might just be a personal preference. Reading your post, I wondered whether you misinterpreted your big-tech coworkers. They might not have been checked out, they might have just been doing their work while having other interests that were more important to them. That is my interpretation of the people I work with (and of myself). I think it can look pretty lame to excited young people, but it's actually the opposite; what's lame is being super into working rather than other better things.
But as a follow-on, something I've been thinking about recently is whether I can take the useful skills I've built through a career in tech and apply them elsewhere, supported by the savings I've been able to build up. I'm not sure what that looks like, but being able to gather, process, analyze, and operationalize data seems important for lots of things, and that's something I know how to do (and I'm not alone here, software is largely about processing data). But I don't know what the most useful thing is to do with those skills; right now what seems important and in demand is epidemiology, but it's probably too late to become useful to this moment. Probably something in the broad sustainability space is more forward-looking. I'm still looking around.
I guess the two points I'm trying to make are: 1. You may be able to find joy by having more modest expectations, and 2. There may be other useful things to do with the skills you built, you should keep your eyes open for them.
Hope this helps a bit, cheers!
I got to kick back a bit and the job was more about delivering accurately and not delivering volume. I spent the first 3 years in that position recovering from prior burnout while still working. I got bored, so I quit and started a business. I worked myself for years right into the ground, burned out again. I took a few months off and relaxed. I ended up geting bored again before I fully recovered and went back to work.
I changed career tracks and switched technologies figuring this would give me a challenge and excitement. A new profession, systems, and rules of engagement. I was truly excited at first and I worked hard. Then I burned out again, before having recovered from prior burnout. This time it isn't due to lack of work/life balance, its due to lack of technological and social satisfaction.
At first I thought it was a bout of imposter syndrome as it's a new career but as time went on I realized it's more about the industry, the direction it's going, and the effects of people getting into STEM for money and not because they're technologists. It's a lot of younger folks who boast about their adderall abuse, get excited to give presentations, and other stuff that I'm really not interested in.
I'm stuck in burnout #3 now. It’s easier to burn out after the first one. I don't have the ability to make a risky move at the moment, I have people who depend on me. I don't know what my next move is now but as you age and your responsibility grows your options shrink. I think I might ride out the virus and look for a new job in the hopes a new environment will give me a push to keep going.
This is common but not a universal experience. I do have much more responsibility now, but also a lot more options; unlike in our youth, we have no unsecured debt, don't live paycheck to paycheck, and have savings, which gives me the ability to plan ahead.
moral of the story: 99% of people still don't understand the nature of software. very few people--like rich hickey (clojure), or fpb (mythical man-month)--seem to get it. tech is mainstream and most people are missing historical context and experience.
(the goals of capitalism are typically at odds with building systems of the highest quality--and understandably so.)
the only creative spark in computing i have to sooth myself anymore is reading lisp or unix books from the 80s and 90s, because the content is so thoughtful (given the culture and smaller community at the time). the internet has become ruined by advertising and bloatware, and the culture has largely been ruined by bad habits and misunderstanding, imo.
I can’t shoot the shit and talk strace or gdb with any of them.
> My first burnout was pure depletion of energy. I was young, passionate, and believed in doing the best work I could. I was addicted to work and pushed myself to deliver. I did, and built a career. I left after almost a decade at that company [...]
(However, I never found a way to leave "Tech" for another profession--especially once I achieved a certain salary range, and others depended on me.)
> I can’t shoot the shit and talk strace or gdb with any of them.
Know the feeling exactly...
This is it. As engineers, we want to build the best can. As managers of a business, we want to product the most profit we can. As marketers, the more income that comes in, the better off we are.
Chose 2 of the 3. Marketing almost always wins one of those slots.
If someone could produce a solid infrastructure to get rid of ads and all that nonsense, but still get a product out in front of everyone, I think that might be the holy grail.
(I hope that if you figure this out - you might give me a .5% royalty) when your successful.
1436.ninja
1436.ninja/1/Port70News
1436.ninja/1/Project_Gutenberg_in_Gopherspace
2f30.org
bay.parazy.de
bitreich.org
box.matto.nl
floodgap.com
fritterware.org
gopher.gluon.me
gopher.viste.fr
gopher.viste.fr/1/ogup/list
gopher://661.org/1if-archive
gopher://adamsgaard.dk/1
gopher://ascraeus.org/1/books
gopher://ftp.icm.edu.pl
gopher://gopher.661.org
gopher://gopher.leveck.us
gopher://gopher.xpenguin.club
gopher://p3x981.com
gopher://republic.circumlunar.space/1/~katolaz/phlog
gopherddit.com
gopherpedia.com
hngopher.com
magical.fish
mozz.us
msbgtn01.synchro.net
port70.net/1/chan
rawtext.club
schinkel.bevuta.com
sdf.org
sdf.org/1/users/julienxx/Lobste.rs
khzae.net/1/chan
bbs.synchro.net/1grp:fidonet
##Usenet is alive too. If you set slrn killing all
##spam, a lot of newsgroups are still bearable.
comp.lang.c
comp.lang.moderated
comp.unix.shell
You mentioned Lisp. I just retired last year, and just turned 69. I only use Lisp now (three planned projects for the macOS store, one almost done, and all my writing is concentrated on Lisp) and am dropping other programming languages that I used to also love, including Lisp languages that are not Common Lisp.
I also agree that the Internet is not what it could be but I still find value by finding a few people who I really enjoy, follow their writing and podcasts, and ignore 99.999% of everything else. I also find that reading books is much more rewarding that browsing the web.
There is something else going here (or so it was for me). It's not the physical/mental exhaustion as is typically what defines 'burnout'. It's the depressing realization that most people around you are deluded piles of shit, even if they are 'nice' individuals.