Hacker News Reader

Comment by hrktb | Hacker News Reader

I see the good intention behind all of these, but also feel there is the other side that is too often overlooked.

Going on golf courses together, dining with the team etc. are the traditional recipes to create trust. But it's walking that fine line between personal and professional life, while also bridging the technical abilities parts and the personal chemistry parts.

I understand we are all human and personal feelings have an impact on work, it can't be extracted up to a point. I'm just not sure we should see it as something that should be perpetuated, moved online or adapted to new environments if those were by default devoid of these elements.

Basically I'd hope we can prioritise other ways to create trust than building personal bonds (TBH, being good at one's job for a decent amount of time seems plenty enough to me)

View on HN

This traditional method is also what contributes to the "glass ceiling" and the "old boys network". As a hispanic with a non-hispanic name, I've certainly noticed some people react poorly me.

While outright racism is rare, I often see a sort of "you can't be better then me" or maybe a "you think you're better then me" attitude.

Maybe it has more to do with my personality then my looks, but it seems to overlap with in person meeting vs virtual.

"But it's walking that fine line between personal and professional life, while also bridging the technical abilities parts and the personal chemistry parts."

This is called networking and I don't think it's going away anytime soon.

I'm a consultant and I get along very well with the director of engineering where I'm working now. When cuts happen, I won't be the first to go. The first to go will be the people that have no relationship with upper management.

Career advancement isn't all about the job that you do.

"Basically I'd hope we can prioritise other ways to create trust than building personal bonds (TBH, being good at one's job for a decent amount of time seems plenty enough to me)"

Being only good at one's job is a great way to keep your current job and position forever. If that's what you want, it's fine. However, if you want to get into management or advance, you need to get noticed and build relationships so your potential can also be noticed.

> This is called networking and I don't think it's going away anytime soon.

It's never going away. It's human nature to trust and favor the people you know over those you don't.

A friend of mine who was one of the top salesmen in his outfit would eat his lunch at his desk to save money. But he wasn't getting promoted, while others were. He eventually realized the "do lunch" socializing with coworkers was essential to success.

The idea is to adapt to reality, it's far easier than to try to change human nature.

Networking doesn’t need to be personal though.

> The first to go have no relationship with upper management

This also means upper management had no clear oversight on how they were doing, what the value they brought in.

If they did the same as you, being let go while you stay is mostly fair.If they were better at their job than you, I’d wish they find a job where they’ll meet better upper management.

I know it feels overly idealistic or unrealistic to a lot of people who, as you describe, climbed the ladder by sticking with the big boys. Especially for those working in bigger companies where a single employee’s value is heavily diluted and political skills become huge assets.

But companies who care more about your code than where you eat are also growingly common. It’s also so much more comfortable when you can feel that your work output actually matters.

Reply on news.ycombinator.com