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Comment by nor-and-or-not | Hacker News Reader

I lost mine a few years ago, since then Google is an absolute no go for me.

Had it for a few years back then and never did anything bad or oblique with it, just used it as my secondary email account and also for deploying a small, harmless Chrome extension to the Chrome store.

So one day my wife bought a tablet and also registered a mandatory account. 1-2 days later my and her Google account was terminated. I mailed support and they told me they couldn't tell me the reason for terminating both accounts. No kidding. Tablet suddenly obsolete. All my emails gone.

Since then Google is a big red flag for me.

Addendum to clarify: They said they won't tell me the reason for terminating my account. I'm sure they could have told me if they wanted to.

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Same here. I contacted customer support and the system said they would reach out to me. This was 2 years ago.

eBay did this to me.

Reddit did it to me - any new account I create from my IP gets auto-banned.

I wonder what would happen if Apple would ban my account. My iDevices will become useless bricks?

Yep. It's near impossible.

Somebody (presumed ex- or current-employee) took handful of iOS devices from our office a few months ago. Changed the password to the Apple ID, added 2FA phone number.

The account isn't even deleted, and we can't get back into it.

We have a dozen other devices logged into that Apple ID, all prompting for the password. You cannot install updates, you cannot roll back, you cannot log out, you cannot factory reset.

Apple have been no help at all.

The devices we have that are logged into this account are bricks. Apparently if we have original proof of purchase, we can take them into an Apple store and have it reset. But a lot of our devices are older or were acquired refurb/used - they're used as testing devices.

The accounts are locked, they just won't help us get back in, we've tried several times and channels. We've offered to do anything, sign anything, they won't do it. I once went through password/2FA recovery with an Amazon AWS account, and it really wasn't that painless (sign some legal paperwork, show a bunch of documents).

We are an unknown startup, but we have generated millions of dollars for Apple over the past decade in App Store cuts. If we can't get back in, I don't know how it'd go for grandma's iPhone.

> If we can't get back in, I don't know how it'd go for grandma's iPhone.

I can tell you about grandpa's iPad. We couldn't find the proof of purchase after he locked his iCloud account (memory isn't great at that age). It's now a paperweight.

The lesson is to keep the receipt.

I would say the lesson is call your congressman and pass some laws.

Landlords in the USA can't kick people out instantly AFAIK. Banks I'm guessing have regulations that prevent then closing your account and throwing your money in the trash. I'm pretty sure the electric company can't shut off your electricity on a whim.

People are dependent on Google and Apple and their devices and services to similar levels. email and messaging services are similar to phone service which is regulated. Apple and Google both provide payment services (Apple Pay, Google Pay) so are providing some of the services a bank offers.

Sure they should be able to close problem accounts at some point but IMO they can't just walk away from responsibility based on a one sided TOS.

Good idea, but the lesson there would likely be that the $ trillion corporation owns the politicians, or would have more representation than average person, so recourse through that path is out as well.

So are you going to be voting for Joe Biden or Donald Trump?

Neither... maybe Biden simply to shakeup and push further towards an "accelerationist" change of the system (because he won't improve things either).

I voted for Trump in '16 to increase manufacturing, close the trade deficit in the midwest, and end neocon wars in the middle east (I fought in Iraq and Afghanistan).

I also support restricting immigration, though I know that's controversial around here. In any case, Trump has failed miserably on all counts. He's more concerned with the stock market than almost anything else, and has stacked his administration with neocon retreads, not pulled troops out etc.

Unless and until some sort of massive restructuring of our political and monetary system, the whole thing will continue to be controlled by banking and finance. No party serves my interests (a more nationalistic economic and industrial policy, and a more socialistic yet conservative social/cultural policy). We have left wing social culture, and market/finance dominated economic policy. Worst combination in my opinion.

Many of those laws you speak of were created in a different era. The last 2 decades have been the time of increased corporate power and reduced individual power. Citizens United, for one.

> I'm pretty sure the electric company can't shut off your electricity on a whim.

They can absolutely can, albeit by mistake.But it's not comparable to googles and apples, since you get your electricity back just by calling them.

Actual lesson: don't buy Apple devices.

I'm sure a tablet running LineageOS or something similar would serve grandpa just fine, and you'd never have to worry about losing access.

Can you give an example of a currently produced tablet someone could buy new and install LineageOS on?

I checked the website, a Lenovo and two Samsungs are listed as supported and not discontinued.

Would be worth it to take them to small claims court.

This sounds like a feature to me.

Not sure if you have tried, but iTunes allows one to do a Device Firmware Update (DFU) of any Apple device with an IPSW file (basically ios firmware) practically making them a brand new device.

Although it is a bit of an overkill, because technically you would be overwriting the iOS firmware with a stock one. It does help. I had to use it on my aging iPad 2, a couple of times and haven't face any issues thus far.

Here's a couple of links that could help: https://osxdaily.com/2010/11/23/how-to-use-ipsw-files/ https://osxdaily.com/tag/ipsw/ https://support.apple.com/en-in/HT201263 https://help.ifixit.com/article/108-dfu-restore

At least you can chat with someone, call someone, email someone at Apple Support very easily.

Yes, as long as you have a copy of the receipts, they'll help you to recover your devices.

I lost an Apple device once (several years ago) in a public place. A couple of days later I got a customer service mail from Apple asking for feedback on a recovery service for the device. So clearly whoever found my device was able to get it unlocked by Apple, or at least get it reset by them to the point they could use it.

That was a disappointing experience. Mailed Apple, but no reply. Fortunately not much personal data on the device. Hopefully things are stricter now.

Although this points to how it's always something of a tradeoff. Absolutely require people to have certain specific information and those who don't have it are pretty much SOL. Perhaps you can make exceptions that require showing up somewhere and present physical ID. But the easier you make it to tell a sob story over the phone/email to get an exception to policy, the easier you make it for unauthorized people to take advantage.

What tablet mandates a Google account? I thought you could always go without, even on stock Android.

Those were cheap tablets from Aldi / Medion one could buy in Germany back then and they required a mandatory Google account to use them. Can't remember their name; they cost about 150 Euros back then.

Then it was covered by the warranty so you could get your money back, at least.

Yes, sure - but this wasn't my main issue.

I found it unapologetic to get my account, which I then have used for years, cancelled without any explanation or sign of wrongdoing.

But what should I say. I didn't pay for it so it was well within Googles rights and discretion. At least this made me aware that such behaviour exists.

that was forced on some cheap androids between version 3 and 4.

after 4.4 they dialled it back to instead of required now they only apply some seven dark patterns to try to trick users into thinking it is mandatory.

same effect to most users, zero regulatory consequences

> I'm sure they could have told me if they wanted to.

Low level random tech-support? Probably not.

I guess you're right, but I find it ridiculous anyways to get an account cancelled without further information or dispute.

the tablet part makes no sense, you can always create new Google account or just use tablet without google account, installing apps through aurora store or apkmirror would be minor annoyance though

After you sign into an Android device with a Google account then factory reset it, you have to sign in with the same account before you can use a new account. It's an anti theft precaution.

AIUI that's only if you "factory reset" from outside the installed OS. You can explicitly remove the existing account from your device, and I think the OS-level "factory reset" function actually does this for you.

you can almost always bypass FRP, need more information on tablet model and Android version

What we really need is the ability to "release" it from the old account. Imagine selling a device and the new owner demanding your password...

Sorry if you don't believe it, but I tell the truth here. No need to make things up. The tablet required one to have a Google account connected in order to use it, plain and simple.

you can always skip adding Google account

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